I'll be avoiding this comment section from here on out.
@ThePandaPool , I'll come back when there's multiple walls of text. I like to scroll down really fast and say "weeeeee!!!"
@ThePandaPool , ill start replying to you with all the really juicy stuff so you see it
@ThePandaPool , whenever I think about the wall, I just remind myself of that sketch from Robot Chicken with the Six Million Peso Man
@ThePandaPool , wise man.
@ThePandaPool , Tmw you can't abstain without proclaiming your abstinence.
@SimonPetrikov, i like you
@Dephenistrator, There's enough now. There's enough space to slide down the comment section.
What do ya'll think about the boarder wall?
The U.S already has a "fence" along most of the length but it's apparently awful.
I think it'd be more effective to fine/prosecute contractors and business owners who hire illegal immigrants so that it makes it hella hard to find work if you don't have papers.
@FlyingLegHair, Sounds like the Americans need to upgrade their rabbit proof fence into a dingo proof fence
@FlyingLegHair, I think we need to focus less on deportation and more on making these people citizens of the country.
@FlyingLegHair, I say screw a wall and put highly trained snipers along the border
@FlyingLegHair, i think we could solve the problem without a wall if we got rid of every free incentive to take advantage of when they break in here and started prosecuting or deeply fining organizations for hiring or helping.
But i also understand this would take renovation after renovation of both parties working together on the subject which will never happen as things stand. A wall would be the most effective single thing to do about it and even that has drummed up this much resistance so i think we should do the wall for now and fix our broken laws when our politicians get their act together later.
@FlyingLegHair, my uncle is an owner of a company that builds houses and he loses business to ppl who hire illegals because it's cheaper and they don't have to report it on their taxes. It's an actual issue. I agree with you.
@FlyingLegHair, I think a border wall is more of a statement than a solution to the problems.
@FlyingLegHair, I think it’d be more effective to just make it easier to get papers.
@liberachi , With you on this one. I'd rather the resources be going to streamlining the immigration process.
@FlyingLegHair, well, given that most illegal immigration and smuggling happens through ports of trade or with people originally in the US legally, a literal wall will do basically nothing besides cost the government (and tax payers)millions, if not billions
@SimonPetrikov, Yeah I dont get why there’s this mentality that the only solution is to kick illegals out. Help them become legal and make em pay taxes, and if for some reason they wont cooperate, then kick them out.
@K1l, “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free... unless they’re tired, or poor, or brown, then we dont want ‘em.”
@king of sharks, It also allows for the employers to mistreat them because they cant go to the authorities for help.
@idontno96, more immigrants come to this country by AIR on LEGAL work visas. They just over stay the visa. (Dept of immigration). Illegals get FREE heathcare and are eledgable for welfare (in most states). Why not start there, then work up to penalizing companys that hire undocumented employees. THEN boarder wall.
...oh yeah because thats politically unpopular, takes money from politicians, and seems like a practical solution that will save if bot make money rather than spend 5.5 billion. My bad. Should have thought of that 1st.
@FlyingLegHair, i want a wall because China has a wall
@Dephenistrator, with politicians like Ocasio-Cortez coming up, I think that day is long passed.
@Sr5turbo, yeah we need to eliminate the benefits that illegals use and heavily penalize anyone that hires them. Or for that matter sanctuary cities or states that house them. Need to make it so bad that no one would dare try to get away with it. Then we need to get rid of the ones we already have, especially repeat offenders, and completely remove them from any immigration programs/work programs. Next comes taxes, immigrants claiming 40 nieces and nephews, that are back in their home country, as dependents to avoid taxes needs to stop. But since most of that will never happen I’m cool with a nice pretty wall to shoot people from
@K1l, because thats rewarding illegal behavior? Which will just incentivize millions more to illegally come for the next round of amnesty?
@Oujosh29, Let me ask you, why do you think it should be illegal to migrate without going through the system? The only real reason is to know who we have residing here and so that they pay taxes. It’s not some morally wrong or dangerous act.
All it will do is incentivize people to come here legally. The current system to gain citizenship is difficult and confusing for a lot of immigrants, which is in turn is leading to more illegal immigrants, which causes a burden. If we were more helpful to make these people legal and have stricter laws/punishments for hiring illegal immigrants, we’d really improve the whole situation.
@K1l, theres a lot more reason than taxes. We need to know for security, economic, and legal reasons. We dont want criminals coming into the country commiting crimes or hurting people, which happens with some who come illegally.
On the economic front illegals are for the most part uneducated and bring no benefit other than physical labor. Great for farmers, bad for Americans whose pay has stagnated.
Reagan granted amnesty to something like 3 million illegals. Now we have 15-30 million. Amnesty will do nothing but incentive more caravans and millions more to come to the country that will use up our money and welfare systems.
@Richard Cypher, so does that mean you’re for federal governments telling states what they can do then? Larger government as some would say. Because that’s what it means when you want to penalize cities and states for being sanctuaries.
Just saying you can’t be for less government and then say things like that.
@Oujosh29, Of course there is more reasons than taxes, like you said for security and economic reasons.
1.) Security would be better because the citizens who would be illegal are now legal: wouldnt you say it’s easier to keep tabs on a bunch of legal immigrants than on a bunch of illegal inmigrants? Plus, with citizenship, it’s likely that crime rates would drop because they now have something to lose where beforehand, they were already illegal, so they had nothing to stop them from commiting crimes.
2.) Legal immigrants contribute more to tax revenue than they take from the government benefits. Legal immigration is beneficial to almost any economy. Even from unskilled/uneducated workers. The US workforce is shrinking. More US citizens are getting educated and it’ll continue to be that way. Low-skilled immigrants are key for those low labor jobs.
@Oujosh29, and of course there will always be some negatives, but it’s a net positive for our country
@king of sharks, my family owns a ceiling fan store and his tariffs made us have to raise our prices by 15%. I know that it’s because we don’t make them in the US but that would bankrupt us. Also does anyone o iPhone have a problem with slow typing?
@K1l, exactly!!!! A huge amount of companies that rely on physical or manual labor, aka, unskilled work, have closed in recent years because there are simply no workers
@K1l, so it would be ok to have millions of Russians shipped over and made citizens to vote for trump 2020 then right? Are you going to overhaul the system making ten times the courts to admit them while they are outside the country or are you going to drop border security entirely to let them in loosely and make it exponentially easier for evil groups like isis to enter?
How many people coming is too many? Unlimited immigration leaves unchecked population levels, not to mention could culturally wash out every ethnicity in the country besides south American in very few generations. Would it be right for whites to wash out an african country the same way? Blacks and asian country? Once you admit anyone as a citizen people will come in droves like we have never seen.
If we have to break down and flood our borders to help these countries people then we should work with them to solve why they fleeing in the first place. It would be better for their country as well. -
@K1l, - if reversed and America were flooding into Mexico we would be expected to stop and fix our problems, not demand that Mexico just change it's laws and make us all citizens. Not acknowledging the sources of this problem is like squabbling over what to do with endless boxes dumped on your front yard and not asking why they are coming at any point.
Im not sure if you fully read my comments or not, but nowhere did I say we should have open borders and drop security. Im saying that those who somehow make it here illegally or overstay their visas should be better aided in gaining citizenship - as long as they arent deemed a threat.
And hell no, some immigrants coming over isnt going to “culturally wash out every ethnicity in the country”. That’s no more than a scare tactic.
@Dephenistrator, im not addressing the issues in Mexico because im not from Mexico. As an American, I see a problem with illegal immigrants here, and Im giving a solution that would be the most beneficial to both us and them, from a moral and economic perspective.
@K1l, Holy f🍆ck, he actually cited white genocide.
racial minorities are projected to account for all of the nation’s youthful population growth over the next 42 years, they will sharply decelerate national aging. Already in 2018, there will be more white seniors than children and more white deaths than births according to census projections.
(Video of it)
Vice President Joe Biden welcomed a top Latin American leader to Washington by declaring that "those of us of European stock" will be the minority in less than two years, and, he added, "that's a good thing."
Biden made the comments during a State Department luncheon for Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff. Though this wasn't going to happen by 2017 like he said, our census projects between the 2040s to 2060s
So yeah, just stupid scare tactics by.... the left? I guess.
Okay so if we let the ones that -
@K1l, get here illegally become legal then we are letting people be enticed to play a life and death game of red rover across the Mexican deserts for citizenship? How does that or allowing citizenship through every visa let us control how many immigrants become citizens like every country needs to?
And your addressing the issues in Mexico right now because this is their issue pouring over us. This is a Mexico/America issue that Mexico has either failed to solve or outright hasn't cared to solve and forcing us to deal with instead, same for every nation they are coming from en mass. The bigger issues are why these countries are so awful their people want to leave in these numbers. We cannot be the planets daycare, unlimited countries cannot depend on our support endlessly, especially in our debt crisis. These countries need to get serious and take care of their problems, or work with us to solve our now MUTUAL problem.
@Jdrawer, with bibliography.
@Dephenistrator, Ok... so what’s the point of you saying that minority populations are growing in comparison to the white population? Do you have an issue with that?
Im personally not “for it”, but there’s nothing wrong with whites becoming a technical “minority”. Even then, white people will still be by far the biggest racial group in the US.
And also, most minority groups in the US just adopt the culture here - which isnt even a “white culture”, it’s just an American culture. American culture is going nowhere, it’ll change, but naturally as all cultures do.
And why are you so worried about racial group sizes? We’re talking immigration here.
yeah, there's always an issue when a population faces both extreme racism and dwindling census which is the current state for whites. unlimited immigration and washing out the current inhabitants are one in the same as proven by the census predictions despite you trying pointlessly to separate the issues. So yes, it is bad to do that to any population. Again, would it be ok if whites made blacks a minority in what used to be a predominantly black country? Would it be okay to do that to most black countries? Immigrants largely do not adopt the cultures. I would love it if that they did but that's not tbe truth. they group in neighborhoods, resist learning languages, and shun other ethnicities or condem the US, so blankly saying they just adopt American culture is a lie. Only some do. It would cost more money than the taxes we would get from illegals turned legal so again that's an incorrect statement. We have a system of controlled immigration that isn't racist or bias to anybody,-
@K1l, This overwhelmed system needs to not be overwhelmed anymore by removing incentives, ending the ridiculous anchor baby law, and at the very least build a wall that costs less than a rounding error on this years budget. How is the wall going to actually hurt? The resistance to the wall is stupidity.
You have a very poor view of immigrants and a bad generalization. Most immigrants come here because they want to be Americans. Even those who who come here and dont speak english and refuse to learn the language/adopt the culture, they have children who definitely do. I know a few children of immigrants and they’re are all very American, but they keep aspects of their culture at home.
Immigrants is what America is built on. I don’t know your history, but if I had to guess, chances are you’re probably only a couple generations down from an immigrant family, because most people here are.
And actually, statistics show that both legal and illegal immigrants give more tax revenue than they take in government benefits. Look into it yourself.
@K1l, the taxes don't supersede the benefits they gain access to at all, i am not even arguing about the marginal taxes they pay. I know immigrants that have adopted American culture, one was one of my best friends until he moved to the Netherlands (he is from Mexico city but chased a girl) but i know far more that speak ill of America, like America owes them. They tell me their Mexican news shows make ridiculous claims of Mexico's territory going beyond canada and believe it.
I don't have a poor view of immigrants, thats very very misleading, we are talking specifically about illegal immigrants being legalized as immigrants and/or taking in excessive immigrants which does not allow time for cultural melding at all. But i like how you dodged the question again, if it's okay to have whites immigrate into a black nation until blacks are lose their majority. Please try to answer that.
@Dephenistrator, Im not dodging the question, I just figured the answer is so obvious that it was rhetorical. There’s nothing wrong with it as long as it happens naturally, which it is in the US. There’s no sudden overwhelming wave of minorities overtaking the overall population of the “native” people.
I feel like you’re being misled by the whole “white people are gonna be a minority” thing. White people arent gonna be a small portion of the population, they’re just not gonna be over 50%. The predictions still say that white people are going to be by far the single largest racial group for a long time.
@K1l, @K1l, no. The rhetorical answer was no, it's not right. And natural immigration would soley be legal immigration. This is a mass exodus from failing countries. That's not natural like just wanting to move, that's a systemic problem at those nations national levels.
I feel like your turning a blind eye to a serious situation, and that's why your ok with it getting worse. "The black population in the US is on the decline, and I think that's a good thing." If that sounds horrible or racist then the reversed original by biden is equally so.
I dont know how many times i have to explain it to you: white people are still going to be BY FAR the largest racial group in the country for a very VERY long time. But this is not even an issue of immigration. The growing minority groups are primarily from minority groups that have already resided here for generations.
The percentage of white people shrinking slightly compared to other racess is not at all an issue because it’s not that drastic.
There wont be some large cultural shift: the growing racial minority populations are mostly people from this country. Can you not comprehend that black people and hispanic people can be just as American as white people?
@Dephenistrator, the US had comparable (some times higher) rates of immigration in the late 19th and early 20th century, but there wasnt some big cultural shift. The people who came over adapted to the culture, and those who didnt had children who did, and their children and so on.
@FlyingLegHair, my opinion, look at other countries! Walls. Spain? Wall. France? Wall. Germany? Wall. Israel? Hella wall. Then there's us, Spain has nothing to fear meanwhile we have serious human trafficking and drug smuggling issues! I say wall it up, it's not perfect but it's a good start. And then we can fix our overly complicated immigration system to deter Innocents from trying to cross illegally and dangerously
@K1l, 1st off, your stats on whites population is stupid wrong, sad you can't comprehend that. Second off, when did i say blacks and Hispanics can't be American? What the hell?! Lastly, 19th and 20th century immigration and modern day Mexico bleeding illegal immigrants ON TOP OF legal immigration does not compare as two number on a chart together. Again, we are talking about illegals here, but most people against the wall don't see a difference between a legal and illegal immigration so understand why you get confused there.
The problem here is major ILLEGAL immigration. Please keep focus.
@king of sharks, Actually he should explore the tax law in more depth, I could be mistaken but I think that's called tax evasion.. undocumented or not, EVERYONE must pay their earning, report ALL expenses and pay their taxes theres a reason undocumented people are able to be assigned itin numbers.
@Dephenistrator, sorry I took so long to respond. I forget where we were and im too lazy to read through them all, so I’ll just go back to where it started.
I still dont get what the big issue with the illegal immigrants are. My proposal was to improve the citizenship system so that it aids illegal immigrants who are already here in gaining citizenship.
It’s pretty hard to keep track of all the illegals in this country. Helping the illegal immigrants instead of kicking them out immediately willl incline more to come foreward. Keeping track of documented immigrants is easier than keeping track of undocumented immigrants, no?
What im saying is, the major issue with illegal immigrants is that they’re hard to keep track of because they’re undocumented. So, if we have a system that isnt so strict on them strictly for being undocumented, more will step forward to get themselves documented, which is beneficial to both parties.
@shake n blake, those tariffs should have been delayed since we can't reach constructive collaborations for new deals. But also I'm a fan of buying American manufactured. I'm sorry you're having to suffer through country regulated negotiations.
@K1l, It was a good poem. That's why they put it on a plaque in the base of the statue.
A wall is not going to stop boats, planes, tunnels, and fake papers.
@datpixel, planes is the big issues. Most illegals legally come in planes then just stay when their visa expires
@datpixel, or just like, a really big ladder. Or busting open a hole in the wall.
@A Math Dealer, both those methods don't work as well as you think they do, especially in the numbers these groups come. Steel slatted walls are not easy to bust through and trying to get 100 or 300+ people over a ladder with border patrols is not smart
@18bluecat, I think the actual wall is meant to combat the cartels and human trafficking, rather than the run of the mill undocumented person. Those can be dealt with some immigration policy changes, encouraging legal methods and punishing the illegal ones
@datpixel, True. Insulating your house isn't going to stop every draft either so...don't bother?
What I find interesting is that border security in the form of a barrier has always been something past presidents from both sides of the aisle were for. I feel like the left pushes away from anything Trump thinks is necessary just for the sake of being anti-Trump and it’s so extreme that some presidential candidates are calling for removing all existing border wall.
@Sir Borksalot , it is madness what they will do to stick it to trump. same with the star bucks guy since he isn't their pet.
@Dephenistrator, It’s funny how they are treating him. I think a moderate democrat like him would be the best bet to take out Trump. A lot of conservatives who aren’t fans of Trump would be more willing to vote for Schultz especially in the swing states but the far left radical democratic candidates are doing a good job of securing those votes for Trump.
@Sir Borksalot , yeah, personally i believe him and Bernie will get the same treatment from the dems because he is running independent as well so he's not technically on their "side"
@Sir Borksalot , gotta get those votes from illegals that they want to turn legal now that their stranglehold on the black vote has loosened
@Dephenistrator, i want to edit that i just read today he has promised the dems he would carry their banner during his presidency if he run
A lot of them don't want to become citizens
OK. This may surprise some people but building a wall is not the ONLY thing being done to solve the illegal immigration problem. It is just ONE approach. It isn't only about immigration either. It is as much about protecting our borders. Just like any other sovereign nation.
My cat is currently sleeping on my pillow, with her head in the crook of my elbow. Happy thoughts