If the Bible is so good why doesn't it have a battle royale mode
@Surande Dadstorm, dammit, looks like I'm an atheist now.
@Surande Dadstorm, read revelations
@Surande Dadstorm, or the bible 2? Hmmmmmm
@Surande Dadstorm, it does in The Holy Bible 2 Tokyo Drift
, the Bible 2 is the Book of Mormon
@lazybones535, The Bible 2 & the Wasp
@Surande Dadstorm, Because very few of the characters are virgins
@lazybones535, DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM!
I dont really think any Christian beleive that God wrote it himself and I believe that it is said the people who wrote the bible were inspired by the presence of God.
@Mortimer Smith Sr, you know... there are people who do take most of it literally... not all but some...
@Mortimer Smith Sr, Allow me to guarantee you that they do, they really stupidly do.
@Catbug, allow me to guarantee as a Christian, I don't, I really genuinely don't
@Mortimer Smith Sr, If any Christian believes the Bible was written by God then they obviously have not actually read said book.
@Chuck Shurley , there are many devoted Christians who haven’t read the bible and many atheists who have (a good chunk of whom weren’t atheists when they started reading it).
@Mortimer Smith Sr, you said “I don’t think any do”. Many do take the bible as the literal word of God. Many people also believe in Creationism, the idea that God literally made the earth in six days six thousand years ago.
You not being an idiot doesn’t contradict that at all. Nobody made the claim that all Christians think that way.
@Mortimer Smith Sr, it was narrated by God, but written by the disciples
@Mortimer Smith Sr, So the authors of the bible heard Morgan Freeman in their heads?
@Warm Buttery Toast, probably.
I'm pretty sure the general idea is it was written by the holy spirit through people of God, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not
@Medic135, yeah that’s the gist of it. Russel brand cares more about being edgy and in-your-face than actually learning about his opposing view. Anyone who was able to land Katy perry and screw it up will always be an idiot in my book regardless of what they think
@Silver6456, I listened to Brand debate Jordan Peterson, and it was bizarre because he made some excellent, well reasoned points at Peterson, but he also had some points of view that were nothing short of idiotic.
@I Are Lebo, That’s kinda how Brand operates. Mainly, because I think he can’t help having a bit of fun with it.
@Berntley, I don’t know... the dumb parts were usually where he was most flustered, not where he was enjoying himself. The parts where he was coherent were the moments it seemed like he was having fun. It was weird, to be honest.
God gave humans free will so we could choose to worship him. He doesn't want blind adoration. I believe in him because I have had my proof that there is something greater out there. I however do not believe in the Bible because most people quoting it are quoting the old testament and that's a problem to me becuase you know there is a thing called the new testament and typically when something new comes out you leave the old one alone.
@arverni, you do know that the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament, right? If you only read 1, or accept 1 side of it, you're only getting half the story.
@arverni, what proof did you get that there's something greater out there? I'm not asking to be snide: I'm genuinely an agnostic and one of my biggest reason for lack of belief is I'm a person who works on proof. I can't do anything on faith unless I'm given reason for that faith.
@The Puppet Man, then you don't understand the meaning of the word faith if you require tangible proof.
@arverni, 1. The Ten Commandments are in the Old Testament. You don’t get to pick and choose what tenants of the Old Testament you keep and which ones you dispose of. Not without being a hypocrite or a liar.
2. Jesus Christ in the New Testament never contradicts the Old Testament. He claims to have come to enforce the old rules, not to change them. “I come not to bring peace, but a sword.”
3. If God doesn’t want blind obedience but punishes those who don’t obey with eternal damnation, he is like a mob boss telling store owners that they don’t have to pay the protection fee and then breaks their legs if they don’t pay.
4. The New Testament is no better than the Old Testament. The Old Testament supported slavery, the New Testament supports punishing someone for the crimes of another. The sins of the father passing onto the son, an eye for an eye, these ideas stem from the New Testament.
5. According to the Bible, the crucifixion of Christ was God sacrificing Himself to Himself for
Himself to change a rule that He wrote. That could not be more arbitrary.
6. Free will is not opposed to the worship or refusal of God. Lucifer KNEW God was real and was able to defy God anyway. Which is in of itself a contradiction. Either God is not all powerful, or God wanted Satan to act as a corrupting influence on mankind so he could be justified in laying his wrath on humans who fall.
7. The God of the bible is the single most immoral character ever conceived of. He advocated slavery, genocide, rape, murder, sexual repression, insanity, conquest, and did so all while claiming that morality is nothing more than what He says is right and wrong.
@The Puppet Man, faith is the justification given for believing something without good reason. If you have proof, you don’t need faith.
Which is why faith is worthless.
@arverni, It's simply false to say god gave us free will so we could choose to worship him. The choice is to worship, or to face an eternity of unfathomable agony in hell.
That's not free will, it's extortion.
@I Are Lebo, first of all, God doesn't "punish people who don't obey like a mob boss". That wouldn't make any sense, since there isn't one Christian on earth that completely obeys God. We are all flawed and he knows this. Secondly, stop with the notion that because you do not know of God, you are banished to hell like a sick dog. "if you do not know of God, but you tried to lead a life of good and righteousness, you will be accepted into the kingdom of heaven." don't even think that just for being a Christian, you get into heaven. There are mentions in revelations of "Christians in heaven that will smell of brimstone" as if they barely got into heaven because just because you fear God doesn't mean you get a free pass if you didn't try being a good person. Secondly, the Bible doesn't support slavery. It supports servitude, which was a contract bound agreement during the old testimate. Reminder of the story where the plagues were inflicted on the Egyptians for making the jews their
@I Are Lebo, slaves? And the "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword" refers to the word of God, not an actual sword.
BTW, any Christian who thinks the earth was made in 6000 years is an idiot and I don't personally know any Christians that think that. Look at the long day theory.
@I Are Lebo, and about picking and choosing, well, you actually do. The reason we don't follow the rule for "no mixed cloth" is because we are not a small cathedral in Isreal that holds Gods company. Those were part of their rules to keep that place pure. Just one of the examples people take things out of context, you know, cherry picks a verse to be mad about, then yells at Christians for "cherry picking"
@The Silver Shroud, you have managed to mischaracterize nearly all of my points, here. Firstly, I never talked about people who were ignorant of God, I was specifically referring to people who reject God. This is, according to your bible, the only unforgivable sin, and guarantees damnation.
The very concept of Hell makes God infinitely immoral because Hell is an infinite punishment for a finite crime. That is the very definition of unfair treatment.
Moral and immoral mean more than just whatever God says is moral and immoral. That’s not a morality system, that’s the exact antithesis.
As for the bible not supporting slavery, I think you may need to go reread your bible, specifically Exodus, where it tells you how to get your slaves, how to treat them, and so on. The fact that it calls this practice ‘servitude’ does not change the fact that according to the Bible, there is nothing morally wrong with owning another human being as property.
@The Silver Shroud, Leviticus 25:44-46 “You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.”
Exodus 21:2-6 “If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be freed in the seventh year but his wife and children will still belong to his master.
But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.”
Exodus 21:20-21 “When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.”
If that’s too Old Testament for you, there’s also:
Ephesians 6:5 “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.”
Oh, and I left out Exodus 21:7-11, where the bible spells out exactly in which ways you may have sex slaves or sell your daughters to be sex slaves.
I seriously urge you to go by yourself for a bit, and read your bible. Not in a bible group. Alone.
@The Silver Shroud, if you are picking and choosing your morality from the bible, then the bible is not your source of morality, because a morality is needed to choose.
What clothing you wear isn’t relevant to this conversation. You being opposed to homosexuality while eating shellfish because the bible says homosexuality is sinful makes you a hypocrite because the bible mentions shellfish, in the context of ‘do not do’ more times than it references homosexuality at all.
If you pick and choose from the Bible, then it is not the Word of God. The only alternative is that you think your opinions matter more than God’s written Word. Like I said earlier, hypocrisy or lie.
And finally, the long day ‘theory’ is another attempt in a long line of attempts to make the evidence fit the theory, instead of fitting the theory to the evidence. It’s not a theory, merely a supposition.
@The Silver Shroud, oh and one last thing, you said “just because you fear God doesn’t mean you get a free pass if you didn’t try being a good person.”
What about confession? Isn’t the entire point of confession sincere penance in exchange for forgiveness?
And why is it a good thing to fear God? What kind of benevolent Force wants to be feared? Punishing those who don’t fear you for not fearing you is malevolence, not benevolence.
@I Are Lebo, first of all, slavery was servitude. It was a contract bound agreement in which you would AGREE to be someone's slave, and at the end of the contracts time, you would receive wealth. This is very evident from just a Google search. It was incredibly common at the times of old test. Secondly, Romans states that "it does not matter what goes into your mouth, or the mouth of others as long as the holy spirit is in your heart". You telling me to read my Bible is ironic, since you have obviously not read it yourself. And about the sex slave thing you mentioned--If a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant.—The right of selling their children into slavery was regarded in ancient times as inherent in the patria potestas, and was practised largely by many nations (Herod. v. 6; Heyne, Opusc., vol. iv., p. 125). Among the Hebrews such sales were, comparatively speaking, rare; but still they occasionally took place, in consequence of extreme poverty (Nehemiah 5:5).
@The Silver Shroud, you can't argue against the morality of a time over 2000 years ago. It's moronic. Obviously people don't sell their daughters anymore, but in a time when it was normal, there were rules on how to treat them. And about your "attempts to make the evidence fit the lie" that sounds incredibly similar to the "evidence" they have for dark matter, magnetic monopoles, and microbiotic evolution. Which.. Is none. Which funny enough is the backbone of evolution and the big bang theory itself.
@The Silver Shroud, your first point is nonsense. Nowhere in the bible does it say that slavery is a volunteer position, and in multiple places it says you may pass your spaces to your children as inheritance. Read your bible, you are either wrong, or outright lying. Regardless of whether or not mutually beneficial work was prevalent, the bible supports owning other people permanently as property. That’s inexcusable.
As for the rest of what you said, none of that is relevant. At all. Nor does it contradict the FACT that the bible explicitly supports slavery. The fact that slavery was practised outside of just the bible does not remove the bibles endorsement of the practice. Nowhere in either Testament is it discouraged to own other people.
And again, neither have you contradicted the idea that someone who knows of God and rejects Him is forever damned, according to both the Old Testament and the New.
Also, you tell me that you’re familiar with the bible, but rely on a google search.
@I Are Lebo, and how exactly can you argue against God's morality in the first place? Using a morality that you created yourself, you argue against the ultimate being and you point and say "no, you're wrong."
But how can you argue against the morality of a God that created them? Your morality, because you think it is correct and righteous, does not make it so. That is your personal opinion of correct morality, or the collected opinions of others. Who's to say what is the right one? In a philosophical sense.
@I Are Lebo, if you expect me to know every bit of the Bible and the exact verses, all thousands of them, you'll be disappointed. Of course I'll Google scriptures in particular to make it easy for you, since you obviously have trouble understanding. Since you keep putting your fingers in your ears and going "lalalalala you're wrong I can't hear you" here are some more examples. _Early Christians had to work out their treatment of one another under Roman law, which they lacked the political influence to change.
The stealing and selling of human beings, such as has been common throughout human history, is a capital offense according to Old Testament law. The return of fugitive slaves to their masters was also illegal.
Early Christians had to work out their treatment of one another under Roman law, which they lacked the political influence to change.
God does not want his followers to break the laws, either. If the laws say to do something, you are to follow it.
@I Are Lebo, So just how similar was Israelite slavery to our conception of the institution that bears the same name? Not much. Consider first that Israelite slavery was voluntary. Exodus 21:16 says, “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.” Found among the earliest cluster of slave laws, this speaks directly to the issue of slavery, and forbids anything resembling a slave trade among the ancient Israelites.
By contrast, Leviticus 25:39 and 47 speak of the poor Israelite as “selling himself” into servitude, suggesting what we will soon discover—that Israelite slaves were debt-servants, not human chattel deprived of freedom and basic rights.
Like I said. A very simple Google search.
@I Are Lebo, but you do you, Lebo. You obviously have a lot of hate for something you don't believe in. Say what you want about Christians, but try to keep the word of God out of it until you've done some more studying
@The Silver Shroud, your lack of understanding of physics and biology is only matched by your lack of understanding of the bible itself.
I am not, and have never, suggested that we judge the morality of a bygone day. I simply am asserting that to label such morality as practical today is disingenuous. If you have to pick and choose from the bible, you are by necessity using your own moral system to filter the Bible’s. Which is fine. I have no problem with someone lifting things from the Bible.
What I do take issue with is someone lying about the contents of their holy book, or claiming its divinity while ignoring all the evil parts.
The Bible supports slavery. This is indisputable. The Bible also claims to be eternal and unchanging, so the excuse that it was for then is nonsense. If slavery was only good then, why is homosexuality still a sin? Why was eating shellfish unacceptable then but is fine now?
Also, FYI, child slavery still exists in many parts of the world.
@The Silver Shroud, “how exactly can you argue against God’s morality in the first place? Using a morality that you created yourself, you argue against the ultimate being and you point and say no you’re wrong”. Every time you eat shellfish, whenever you say slavery is bad, so are you.
The only one here metaphorically putting their fingers in their ears is you. You are denying verses from your own holy book that support slavery and nowhere in either Testament is slavery condemned. Not once.
As for the stealing and selling of humans being a capital offence, citation needed. Because I showed you the line saying you may buy slaves from foreigners. That you aren’t capturing the slaves yourself is irrelevant. The bible says being a slaver is wrong but owning slaves is not. You’re splitting hairs to no valid end.
@I Are Lebo, okay? Slavery definitely exists but what I just explained to you is - my gosh you are dense. Just ignore what I say and call me wrong with no counter arguments to my historical evidence backed by ancient contracts found in Isreal. Yes, they are there. Google them. Homosexuality is the only thing referred to in the Bible as an abomination. Shellfish, on the other hand, was not. And please, explain to me my lack of biology and physics and how I don't understand the Bible. Clearly you don't understand simple reading comprehension?
@I Are Lebo, I gave you citation. Did you even read my comment?
Oh man, I'm not gonna reply to you anymore if you're just waiting for your turn to speak. I gave you a whole essay on why you're in incorrect and your only answer is "no u"
@The Silver Shroud, firstly, dark matter is not a theory, it’s a hypothesis. Microbiology is a field with plenty of evidence.
As for counter arguments, why don’t you reread my bible quote from earlier that expressly allows the purchasing of foreign slaves, as well as the means by which to permanently enslave other Israelites.
I will yield the point regarding shellfish though. It refers to them as detestable, not as abominable.
@I Are Lebo, So can't you agree, that in exodus 21:16, that states anyone who kidnaps and tries to sell men as slavery should be put to death, that contradicts your argument about how the Bible is pro slave trade? That MAYBE by slavery, it meant voluntary servitude under a contract, that only happened in extreme poverty?
@The Silver Shroud, I’m not going to comment for the next five minutes so we can stop talking over each other. You have the floor.
@I Are Lebo, I'll just let you have this one bud. I'm done trying to show you all the evidence for the 3rd time.
@The Silver Shroud, the evidence you have provided has been of no importance. The fact that the Bible condemns slaving does not in any way contradict that it endorses buying slaving captured by foreigners, and it also allows the permanent ownership of women slaves. Only the male Hebrew slaves are set free after seven years, and even then only if they agree to leave their families if they weren’t married when the enslavement began.
The counter of it being voluntary servitude is contradicted by the actual content of the bible, and even if it wasn’t, it’s irrelevant. It allows the permanent ownership of human beings that you may pass to your children as property, and that these slaves must obey their masters regardless of how they are treated.
I have provided evidence of this. Either go away, stop tap dancing around the truth, or maybe acknowledge that the Bible is not the perfect word of God and is in fact the moral prescriptions of Middle Eastern goat herders from millennia ago.
@I Are Lebo, Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b] for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broke
@I Are Lebo, broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money. And how do you not understand that by "foreigners" it does not mean kidnapped. It means debt servitude. Literally 99.9% of the time, servitude was to pay a debt that you owe if you were poor. That's why it states if you are to steal men and sell them, you are to be PUT TO DEATH. How am I tiptoeing around this while you are clearly ignoring what I am saying?
@I Are Lebo, no, you know what, I'm done. Obviously you refuse to see the evidence I put before you. The Bible even states if you are to hit them and knock out a tooth or an eye, they are to go free. It states if you kill them, you are to be put to death. If you kidnap and sell them, you are to be put to death. The only example you are clinging to is if the servant is given another servant to be with. If he accepts, he will have to leave them after his time is up and wait for their time. Otherwise, he will have to agree to be that man's servant for life. That's the ONLY instance that doesn't include women for marriage, which are to be SET FREE if they are mistreated. This is so right there for you to see.
@I Are Lebo, I'm turning off my notifications now. I'm done talking to a brick wall.
@The Silver Shroud, go to ironchariots.org. Educate yourself, rather than accepting the indoctrination.
@The Silver Shroud, look, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t believe, or that you shouldn’t be a Christian, or even that you shouldn’t have faith in the Bible. But if you are going to take the stance that the Bible doesn’t support slavery, you are either wrong or you are lying because it explicitly does.
@The Silver Shroud, I’m just going to point out here, that you accused me of “sticking my fingers in my ears”, yet I’m not the one who fled the conversation and turned off their notifications because they didn’t like what the other person had to say.
Be better than this. You could have said “I don’t want to talk about this anymore” at any point in the conversation and I would have respected that.
I use to be quite a devout christian. Then I was in a religious school for 3 years of my life and that all changed. If we are the only planets why is the the universe so incomprehensibly big. If God is omnipotent and omnipresent why would some Angels try to dethrone him it would literally be impossible. Not to mention being that is means there is no such thing as time so no such thing as being able to have free will. Why would humans need to be inspired to write the book instead of just just doing it himself or better just having people born with that knowledge already. It's always bugged me that he made Lucifer and all the Angels who followed him with the intent of damning them to hell. They had predestined to fallow that path. I could go on for hours and hours and no one has ever truly answered my questions with in some way or another telling me part of it is having faith. Faith is a copout just like saying when politicians lie that's it's just politics.
*Hand appears and starts burning letters into a wall*
true religion is believing for the sake of believing, without need of some sort of evidence or suggestion of proof.
@Z0IDBERG, then true religion is gullibility.
Is there any position one cannot take on faith?
@Z0IDBERG, True religion is not just relying on faith, but on evidence as well.
@I Are Lebo, i guess i was attempting to explain the whole 'being spiritual' part of it. hard to explain. I assume this is why religion is so easy to argue about, it's just too hard to explain sometimes.
@Z0IDBERG, I agree. I am not opposed to the aspects of community that religion brings, but the emphasis on blind acceptance from most religions is responsible for much of the world’s problems, both directly and indirectly.
This coming from a guy who lives in a country that has blasphemy laws against Islam. People who criticize christianity for being backwards and retarded are correct but tend to ignore how backwards and retarded Islam is. Did you know that Muhammed apparently rode a pink unicorn to meet God. Muslims actually believe this shot. But you can't criticize muslims for their mental retardation without being racist somehow. The world we live in.
@BlazingBowman, most of the people I see criticizing Islam aren't talking about the religion but the people. Calling them all terrorists or backwards.
@vampirefork, by definition they are backwards. The very things they believe make them backwards. If they did not believe the things they believe they couldn't be considered Muslim. So yes the ideology has a violent streak, and yes the oppression of women as chattel is very much ingrained in the religion.
@BlazingBowman, ok, so what's your solution to this problem in your world. Obviously you hate these people so what do you want to do about it?
@vampirefork, they need to be made fun of for the stupid sh!t they believe instead of protecting them via blasphemy laws. Do you know that you are basically not allowed to protest at mosques in Britain. The cops will arrest you. Because the muslims might get to violent. It's one rule for them and one rule for everyone else. Which is unacceptable. They are treated with kids gloves when what they should be going through is ridiculed and mocked and derided for their mentally retarded beliefs. Just like the Christians. Which made them essentially an impotent movement. So impotent we actually got the pope inviting gay people into the religion. The pope that's hilarious. The level of cvcked we got the Christians right now is amazing.
@BlazingBowman, if I were to make fun of you for your position right now do you think you'd be more inclined or less inclined to listen to what I have to say?
@vampirefork, if you refuted me so soundly that I felt embarrassed for holding the opinion at all yes I would. But that won't happen. Because my beliefs arnt so divorced from sanity that you could do that.
@BlazingBowman, what you described wasn't refuting an argument it is attacking them personally. When people get verbally attacked they don't listen, they attack back. Essentially your strategy guarantees that they would stay the same and possibly even make some people think that people around them want them dead.
@vampirefork, look dude how do you think christianity got so nudered? In the early 2000 their was a very long culture war between atheists and Christian's. On the internet. Okay Christians summarily lost each and every time. They were made to look utterly ridiculous. They were laughed at until they retreated into irrelevancy. This is what needs to be done to islam.
@vampirefork, when did I ever say to attack them personally. I didn't and I never even got close to saying anything like that.
@BlazingBowman, when people are verbally attacked they have the same psychological reaction as being physically attacked, they get defensive. Your theory also doesn't hold true when atheists are still a heavy minority in every Western nation.
@vampirefork, someone can't distinguish attacks on stupid ideologies and personal attacks. No there is a difference stop conflating the two. The amount of people who identify as atheist or secular increase every year, and church attendance continues to drop to more and more abysmal levels. I think it was less than 2% of the British population that attends church. Don't quote me on that though. But church attendance has been falling drastically over the years probably specifically because people watching Christians just constantly lose at every debate
@BlazingBowman, where are you getting the information stating that the decline has a causation of that. I decided to look it up and no article I've seen says that people are attending church less because they are being insulted for it.
I was reading an article yesterday about some of the "deleted" books of the Bible, and holy sh*t, it makes most Syfy Channel movies look tame in comparison.
Don't be daft Steve it was it written by Jesus.
F that guy tho. Hate him.