Okay, I am a white male (so my opinion on the subject is skewed) but shoildnt you celebrate the outstanding performances of the asians that got represented, and not representation in and of itself?
@Genesis Rhapsodos , stop oppressing everyone with your privilege
@Genesis Rhapsodos , I’m a white male and you’re even making me feel oppressed with your privilege
@Genesis Rhapsodos , smells like praticipation trophy to me.
@Genesis Rhapsodos , Genesis. We meet again.
@Genesis Rhapsodos , yes. But it can be hard to celebrate said representation when there are not many opportunities for that representation and thus not many representatives as a whole. That is what I have learned through the experience of friends that are poc and such. That being said in the context of youtube rewind this was a dumb statement and should've have been showcasing actual Asian youtube creators which if I recall there wasnt much of that but I could be wrong. I dont know every single Asian youtuber
@Genesis Rhapsodos, it gets easier once you realize that we’re just not allowed to have an opinion.
@Zack Fair, something something gift of the goddess, something something loveless
@Basil Fawlty, celebrating representation in an area devoid of naturally occurring representation does contain a connotation of being an exception to the rule rather than the rule itself.
To put it more plainly, being more celebratory about a woman becoming a CEO than a man is to imply that she became a CEO in spite of being a woman. I think that’s inherently ignorant, either of the nature of society or of the sexes in particular. There are women CEOs, there’s just far fewer than men. All of the evidence points towards this being because of fewer women pursuing the job.
(You can replace “woman” there with any minority group and it works the same)
@Genesis Rhapsodos , thank youuuuu
@Genesis Rhapsodos , as a Chinese guy, I feel that "needing more Asian representation in entertainment" is one of the fvcking dumbest thing I've ever heard. We Asians have our own damn entertainment and we don't bother trying to have more white people or other races. We literally don't give a shjt about having more of other races. We just do what we enjoy instead of forcing fvcking politics into shjt.
@CoolGuy10002, I was going to bring that up but I couldn’t think of a tactful way to do so, so thank you for that.
@Quarry77, Nononono, white males absolutely MUST have opinions. If we didn’t, they’d have to find someone else to be wrong all the time - and that would be sexist/racist/transphobic/whatever.
@CoolGuy10002, These people who go on about representation don’t care that other countries around the world have entertainment industries where an American minority is a hyper majority like India, China, Japan, ETC. but they’re too spoiled to watch something that isn’t a Hollywood English speaking film.
@Nellybert , after the Progressives militia forces white men into slave labor, they’ll make it illegal to be straight. Then will come the slaughter of republicans.
@TheRatMan, well put
@I Are Lebo, What’re they gonna go? Beat them to death with bunches of kale? Maybe sentence them to death by starvation of anti-oxidants and essential oils?
@Nellybert , nah, my guess is old school. Gulags and firing squads.
It’ll be like in the UK, except instead of getting arrested for offending the protected class, you just get taken behind the shed and shot.
@I Are Lebo, Shooting people sounds like it’d require guns - and I’m pretty sure that those’d be the first things to go.
Hey, it’s not that bad here, media just blows it out of proportion. One dude got mildly done for going OTT with a video of him and his dog saying ‘heil Hitler’ and doing Nazi salutes, and a fúckwit nearly caused a trial of a pedophile gang to collapse so got arrested, other than that it’s just Guardian readers getting outraged over stuff and saying ‘something must be done’. Reality is that several hundred UK citizens fùcked off to join ISIS, and now want to come back - so the government put together anti-hate speech laws to deal with people like them and Abu Hamza (Google him) who we really don’t want walking free but can’t always strip of citizenship or deport to a US supermax prison.
@Nellybert , you do realize that over 3,000 people were arrested and/or detained and investigated for ‘offensive language’ or ‘malicious communication’ online in 2017, right? And the number has been steadily rising since 2016?
I was being facetious, but freedom of speech is a dumpster fire in the UK, there is no divergence allowed from the party lines.
@I Are Lebo, Do you have a source on that? All the data I can find after 2015 lumps Malicious Communications in under ‘Public Order’ (c400k offences) or ‘Stalking and Harassment’ (c100k offences) so I have no idea how accurate that is or what the offences were (it can cover everything from ‘hate speech’ to revenge porn and bomb threats).
**EDIT: I can find limited regional data, but only in local news stories rather than official sources like the ONS. **
@Nellybert , https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11627180/Five-internet-trolls-a-day-convicted-in-UK-as-figures-show-ten-fold-increase.html
@Nellybert , there have now been literally thousands of people arrested for their tweets.
Granted, few of them were actually charged, but this should terrify.
@I Are Lebo, Yeah, that’s the last stand-alone stat I could find and it’s from 2015 so I’ve got no idea what the figures are today. But that will include everything from emailed death threats, to harassing/pervy stalker phone calls, to tweeting calls for global jihad against Christianity - it’s not 1,500 people arrested for making jokes about batty boys on twitter.
@I Are Lebo, Remember that this will cover all forms of communications (the Act is from 1988, so predates social media) not just twitter - and I’d guess that the vast majority will be targeted harassment by individuals against other individuals, rather than people just tweeting something deemed ‘not politically correct’. If I was using social media to harass my ex and make her life a misery, I’d likely be convicted under this law, which I think we can agree would be fair enough.
@Nellybert , this is the problem. You’re guessing what the demographics being targeted are. I have seen numerous reports of left and right leaning people having an argument on Twitter and the police showing up at the house of the right leaning participant. Anything ‘offensive’ (criticism or insulting in any way) against trans people is being treated as bigotry or hatred.
Then there’s the throngs of things labeled as racism, from the nineteen year old girl arrested and charged for posting rap lyrics to Count Dankula himself who is likely going to wind up in jail once the time limit on his fine passes without him having paid it.
It’s not people being charged with harassment, it’s people specifically being “investigated for malicious communication”, a label so subjective as to be meaningless.
@I Are Lebo, Police have a duty to respond to allegations of crimes, and will show up at the house of the one who got reported by the other - so what I take from it is the ‘lefty’ in the argument was a snowflake who ran to hide behind mummy’s skirt. And a police response doesn’t mean an arrest.
The Dankula thing was, in my eyes, a combination of an out of touch old dude who didn’t get YouTube, faced with an idiot who didn’t understand legal process (his defence submission was basically “oh fúck off, it was a joke” which is hardly a solid legal argument) and a law which I agree is potentially open to abuse.
I don’t know much about the 19 year old, but I’m unconvinced that “kill a snitch n**** and rob a rich n****” is something you post as a ‘tribute’ to a dead 13 year old. I’d need to find out more about the case before I decide - if it was gang related (it is a shíthole area) there could be more to it.
But yeah, the trans brigade do scream foul way too often.
@Genesis Rhapsodos , I think it’s valid to celebrate representation in and of itself. Every step in the process to a legislative body, for instance, getting to a 50/50 male female split is something to be proud of. Same thing with the United States getting to the point where more than 50% of people are willing to vote in a mixed race man for president in 2008. So I think making this comment about Hollywood is valid because there’s some discrimination built into Hollywood casting, some of it just a financially induced relic of more racist times (casting Tom Cruise for a $200m budget movie instead of an unknown person named Muhammad X) some of it actually discrimination. However talking about this in the context of youtubers seems so ridiculous. The barriers to becoming a youtuber are virtually nonexistent with your success depending on YOU. It’s the same ridiculousness of that Lilly Singh video complaining how women on YouTube maybe might be losing ground to male youtubers.
@Genesis Rhapsodos , so in the case of youtubers, celebrate the youtubers not the representation
@Nellybert , these people are being put in handcuffs, (in some instances) removed from their home, fingerprinted, DNA tested, and put under police investigation, all for being rude (or even just disagreeing) with trans activists. These activists are facing zero consequences for filing a police report for things like ‘dead naming’. Calling someone by their birth name. This is a gross violation of free speech.
“Oh fück off, it was a joke” absolutely is a defence when you have been arrested and charged for making a joke. In a situation where you make a joke in which no one has been harmed, and you get dragged through two years of court cases and potentially lose either a large sum of money or your freedom, that’s tyranny.
I’m Jewish, all four of my grandparents were holocaust survivors, and Count Dankula teaching his ex’s pug to throw a nazi salute on command was friggin hilarious. Because I understand dark humour.
The girl didn’t post threats and wasn’t charged for that. She’s
white and used the n word. That was enough. To these people, context, intent, and nuance are all irrelevant.
This is how liberty dies. If you aren’t a ‘protected class’, then first you aren’t allowed to be rude. Then you aren’t to be inappropriate at all. The rules will get stricter and stricter on the unprotected class until its outright oppression. The same police that are going to peoples houses and arresting them for being mean to trans or blacks are ignoring and dismissing blatant racism against whites and blatant sexism against men because they’re not ‘protected’.
I’ve seen police reports filed by people receiving the exact same kind of ‘harassment’ that these police jump on and then being told it’s not worth their time to investigate. The pattern of why is clear.
@Ultramatt, why is it a benefit for the legislative body to be evenly split gender-wise (or even race-wise)? Why is the gender of the lawmaker a relevant thing if their job is to represent ALL of their base? White people in the senate or congress aren’t there to represent white people, they’re there to represent Americans. The men in government aren’t there to represent men only.
It is not discrimination to hire a white A list actor with a known history and popularity over an unknown ‘person of colour’. That’s business. Celebrities have different levels of value and bring attention to a role, that’s why they’re paid so much. Movies make or break based on the cast all the time. That’s not a “financially induced relic”. Movies are produced to make money. That’s the entire point. Telling a story or making art is secondary at most. That unknown Muhammad guy isn’t going to bring anything to the production, whereas Tom Cruise is a known variable who will bring people to the movie because of
name recognition and acting ability.
While I agree with you that there are no barriers to becoming a YouTuber, your argument that success as a YouTuber is contingent on the youtuber alone is untrue. For every YouTube account that manages to get up to ten thousand subscribers (without having every video demonetized), there’s a thousand who paddle along with a handful of subscribers before going under. Success on YouTube is more up to luck than skill or even perseverance. Like with Hollywood, you have to either have the correct connections with the right content, or you have to be in the right place at the right time with the right content.
The content doesn’t even have to be good or accurate, it has to be desired by the audience, and as the YouTube audience now includes people of all ages, backgrounds, and political affiliations, it’s a complete crapshoot as to what gets groundswell support and what doesn’t.
I do agree about celebrating individuals instead of representation.
@I Are Lebo, what I meant about barriers to YouTube is that anyone can start a YouTube channel, not the difficultly of being popular. Of course I recognize how lucky/talented you have to be to become a popular youtuber.
As for my point about representation, I think it probably reflects bias in society if a legislature does match the traits of its constituents. Because sure I a white person can elect a black person can elect an Asian person can elect a Hispanic person but statistically on the aggregate it should smooth out so that a legislative body nearly equals the breakdown of its constituents. I much prefer the congressional makeup of 2019 to that of 1970. It shows a less racist and less sexist populace which I view as a positive to be celebrated.
About the actors, the reason I talked about it being a relic is that the older popular actors of today, the ones who movies are centered around, come from a more racist era where the prevailing idea was that someone who is not a white male
@I Are Lebo, cannot sell a movie. I don’t think there’s a reason why that should be true and that directors taking risks on lesser known very talented minorities is a positive change in society. The select group of A and B list actors should probably match used should probably match the statistical breakdown of the country. I just want to state that I’m not saying that anything should be forced, ie I’m not bringing affirmative action into this or complaining about there being no black directed movies being in the 2018 Oscars, just that I think it’s good to see a large body naturally reflect its component parts
@Ultramatt, I don’t see how you’re getting to the conclusion that the demographics of a society should be directly represented in their governing body. Different people have different priorities, and different passions. The percentage of politicians in society is minuscule compared to the whole, so why you’d expect people to vote for their own kind over those with principles and plans they agree with is beyond me.
It needs to be demonstrated that the demographics are the way they are because of discrimination, not simply asserted. If less women want to be career politicians, it’s not for society to step in and force the question. If career politicians are not accepting of female applicants just because they’re women, then I agree that society does need to intervene. The motivations and nuances matter. It’s not racist if 1% of the qualified applicants for a role are part of a demographic that is underrepresented.
As for non white males being unable to sell movies, unless you’re
talking about the forties, in which there was a TON of wide scale abuses in entertainment (remember that Hollywood was specifically established because of rampant anti Semitic attitudes in Broadway), affecting everyone that wasn’t a Western European white man.
This is not then, and should not be correlated. There are MANY non white male actors that bring phenomenal value to a project. Idris Elba, Will Smith, Jamie Fox, Chris Rock, Kevin Hart, Dwayne Johnson, Scarlet Johannnson, Michael B Jordan, Zoe Saldana, the list goes on and on.
There isn’t a reason why that would be true because it isn’t. My brother is a producer in Hollywood and I’ve had lengthy conversations with him about what actor value means and why certain actors are paired with certain roles. Name recognition is more important than anything else. It’s not about minorities not being able to sell movies. They do, all the time.
Your assertion that A and B list should match the statistical breakdown of the country is not
based in reality at all. That’s a ludicrous proposition. There isn’t a panel of people deciding who is A list and who isn’t. It’s a result of their successes in both choosing roles and performing them well. Elevating ‘underrepresented’ people just because of the demographics they are is tokenism, not diversity, and it devalues the success of all, not just minority groups.
Having a large body reflect its component parts is not something that makes any practical difference. It serves to qualm feelings of inclusivity and that’s literally it.
Maybe try looking at people as more than their race or sex. You have an extremely prejudicial and shallow view of society, and you’re far from unique in that fashion.
No random woman. Try being funny like Franku, Markiplier, NigaHiga, and Kev Jumba and get your fame like a normal person
No. We are all supposed to be equal, right? Stop singling any particular group out.
Making strides wherever they can be