I mean, I’m not going to just flat-out say it’s a bad idea; there’s enough nuance there to argue for days.
But *maybe* the money and manpower required to trace those lineages and apply reparations would be better served improving the public schooling and infrastructure of relevant communities? Direct monetary compensation is nothing to sneeze at, but it seems like applying a band-aid to a festering laceration.
@Ultimatum, ... i believe paying someone for another persons life is bull and that this needs squashing before it sets a precedence.
@davionaceae, fundamentally speaking if a person dies under someones service or employ their family should be compensated for that loss. I think the bigger question here is more if it's the place of the government to make the repayments for loss of life (due to being enslaved). I would argue it isn't as the government isnt the group that enslaved those people they just didnt make it illegal. Ideally the estates of the slave owners would go to pay for this but that leads into even bigger problems. The best way to handle this situation would be as ultimatum described. Put the time and money I to improving education, infrastructure, etc. and let the descendants of those wrong in America's past have a better chance towards their future. Not just a lump sum payment today.
@Ultimatum, I agree with you, but also reparations have long since been paid off with interest because of public services like welfare, food stamps, all that stuff that helps people out when they need it so there's really no need for any of it.
@davionaceae, I mean in some cases people pay off their parent's debt when they die. Why do the dead owe money but can't be compensated? I also disagree with reparations for slavery but it's something to think about ya know?
@davionaceae, I mean, I’m with you on that. Just trying to present it more neutrally, since saying it flat-out tends to elicit incoherent screeching, which kinda goes nowhere.
@Ultimatum, the amount of effort it would take to find out who owned slaves and how much they should owe for because of that would be far too difficult and expensive for there to be any effect. Its gonna cost a lot of tax dollars for people that never had anything to do with slaves. My ancestors are italian and came here in the early 1900s. I had literally nothing to do with it. And that's probably the case for millions of Americans. Its regressive and a waste of time and resources. We need to move on as a country. We can't focus on the worst parts of our past unless we intend to learn from them.
@davionaceae, all cultures have made slaves of each other, should we all get reparations from everyone?
@Ultimatum, i dont disagree with you. But I also don’t disagree with the argument for reparative justice. It’s an ethics question, not a “where can we best spend our money” question. A lot of people feel that White Americans owe Black Americans justice and helping slave descendants is the way to go. It’s not necessarily the most efficient spending, but it’s an ethical answer to the slavery problem
@icantfindmyfamily, so I'm white and never owned another person but I should give money to black people who were never owned by anyone? What about the black people who owned other black people? This rabbit hole is deep and twisted. What about descendants of white people who died fighting in the civil war? Do they get paid for their ancestors dieing to end slavery. I have ancestors on both sides of the conflict, should I pay myself?
@icantfindmyfamily, the sins of the father are not my problem I’m not going to feel bad for something that I didn’t do this was mostly resolved 154 years ago (sorry I don’t really count racist policies that’s a similar but separate issue) so yeah the people who think white people owe black people something just because our ancestors had slaves are just stupid there is no slavery problem any debts owed have long since been repaid
@davionaceae, I’m 10% Irish I am ENTITLED to knighthood and a few 100ks from the Queen of England for stuff that happened 600 or so years ago
@mycatsanahole, again, I like to be on this side of the argument. It seems like if we didn’t do it, then fixing everything isnt our problem. But you can also think about every white person in this country whose family gained so much from slavery, and every black person who lives in a disadvantaged community because they come from a family of slaves who never made it out of rural Louisiana. I’m not saying it’s the fault of the modern white. I just propose the argument that we’re not as disconnected as it immediately seems
@Ultimatum, I never owned a slave. Nor did my parents... Or my parents parents... or my parents parents parents. They lived in Germany, actually. So why should I pay taxes for something even my family never did? It’s trash.
@icantfindmyfamily, i agree we aren't disconnected because while i dont have any slave owners in my family i do have so share croppers in my ancestors, do they get reparations for their struggles. Life is a struggle. Not all white people are rich or come from rich families. Not all black people are poor or come from poor families. My point is that reparations have NO place in 2019. Get an education and earn a living quit looking for handouts and yes EVERYONE can get an education black, white red,yellow,purple doesnt matter. Those that what an education get an education.
@mycatsanahole, i think you’re right. I like this community because we can engage in conversations like this without it becoming a fight. My counter point, if you’d like to hear it, is the example of Georgetown University. They recently passed a referendum to raise tuition by about $25 a semester to donate to a community of slave descendants. The community in question is one that existed because Georgetown sold 272 slaves to an owner in that area. I think those reparations are okay considering Georgetown would never be what it is without that benefit from slavery
@icantfindmyfamily, in that case I can choose to pay the fee or I can choose to attend another college, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with being forced to pay taxes that are then used for this bs. If these politicians feel so strongly I say they can spend THEIR money to pay reparations. But politicians only want to spend OUR money. Their funny that way.
@mycatsanahole, yeah. It’s such a foggy thing and I don’t think every white person needs to pay more money to help every black person, because that doesn’t make any sense at all
@icantfindmyfamily, only 5% of whites are related to slave owners and an identical percentage of blacks are related to slaves now so i can't see reparations being implemented without being ridiculous. That being said, over 640,000 lives were already spent in reparations during the civil war. I can't imagine a greater reparations without a higher death toll.
@Ultimatum, how do you punish someone for doing something that was legal when they did it but isnt now? You cant.
@TheWhiteWolf, the best way to handle the situation is to never EVER bring up reparations again. It’s a moronic idea used to convince soft headed people that the government is Santa clause combined with mommy.
@Ultimatum, that’s what most reparations plans call for - setting aside a fund to be invested in at-risk communities, as delegated by black leaders.
@LoveTheBomb137, my house has never caught on fire. Why should i pay taxes for the fire department? I’ve never fought a war. Neither has my family. Why should I pay taxes for the VA? I didn’t go to public school. Why should I pay taxes for education?
No. It’s dumb
Wheres my reperations for slavery from the saudis? White people from america were taken as slaves to. GIBS ME MONEY!
@BlazingBowman, maybe you should move to Saudi Arabia and protest the government there...
@griffinstorme, nah just gibs me free stuff
Before yall get up in a tizzy… a bill is being pushed by 1 congresswoman for congress to consider a committee which would then consider the effectiveness of reparations.
Not actual reparations.
Also this bill has been proposed every year for the past 20 years by one congressman. But he’s heckin old now and some young hotshot congresswoman wants to continue “his fight”. And for 20 years straight pretty much everyone else in congress thinks this is a bad idea.
@Miss Leading, you should watch the Democrat candidate debates and count how many are pushing it to.
@Dephenistrator, it's an easy way to get black votes. Just remember, all politicians lie.
@vampirefork, how can i forget, they never stop
reparations was paid off already. Anyone can view the receipt by looking up the casualties of the civil war. On that note, only about 5% of whites had slaves and 2% of freed slaves had slaves of their own for profit and of those who bought their lovers, some did not marry unless they liked them enough and sold them to buy for another try.
@Dephenistrator, but they don't talk about that because they don't want people to know that. They also don't want you to know that the slaves were sold to Europeans by black slave owners...
@UglyNakedGuy, yeah, it doesn't fit the propaganda to know that african tribes conquered and sold their own to anyone they could
@Dephenistrator, 1. The union didn’t fight to end slavery and even after the civil war, Black disenfranchisement was an issue for... well until the present. 2. That’s a lie. Around 32% of southern families owned slaves. 3. Yes, some free blacks did own slaves, for a variety of reasons. Sometimes for profit, sometimes to save their friends and family. It was part of the culture in much of America. It doesn’t matter.
It also doesn’t matter who took part in the other side of the transatlantic slave trade, it still wasn’t right. You can’t justify slavery because of cultural practices in Africa. Moreover, that claim lacks a lot of nuance.
@griffinstorme, 1) yes the war was about the sovereignty of the states but the federal issue was slavery and if those deaths aren't enough then what ever will be? 2) 4.9 percent of people in the slaveholding states owned slaves, that 19.9 percent of family units in those states owned slaves, and that 24.9 percent of households owned slaves. (Households are a broader category than families.) 3) doesn't matter? Seriously?? 4) i NEVER justified slavery. Don't put that kind of lie in my mouth, keep that trash to yourself. 5) it's critically incorrect that America is the only example of slavery, and highlighting that even africa had a huge slave trade culture is an important reminder not to demonize people or use it as an excuse for ridiculous reparations.
If they get compensated for shjt theyve never seen or dealt with, then I demand compensation for my irish ancestors who enslaved by the british in the 1500s and 1600s.
@aminalFacks, that might be a different country. USA was established in the late 1700’s
@sicksadworld, so then would slaves from the south not be eligible since they were freed while in another country? The confederation was recognized by other countries cuz them Europeans didn’t want to not get that cotton
@BigJohnson86, I don’t think they should be eligible. Was merely pointing out that the USA wasn’t a country when his family was “enslaved”
Why isn't Egypt paying the Jews?
@Medic135, and Germany, and Russia, and America for deporting some of us back to Germany during WW2...
@ImAWhoreForThor, why isn't (insert nationality/culture) paying the Jews?
@Medic135, there you go
Reparations to living survivors back in the day who were freed would make sense. It'd at least be fair to have an honest debate about. But now? Pure stupidity. Genetic makeup of so many people puts them on both sides of slavery. You'd think Lefties would be happy giving a white guy money even though he had descendants that were black? How do you know if someone was a free black in the north or a slave in the south? Descendants today are at bare minimum 4 generations apart from slaves if they even have such connections. Making everyone foot a debt we especially can't afford right now is immoral and pure stupidity.
I want reparations since I'm Comanche and also German
@Strawberry Milk, I’ll give you a jug of firewater and a bratwurst
Hey I’m not good at this conversion thing, but there’s a post on facebook by Out of Mana that’s a bunch of anime girls doing stuff like juggling. The art I guess is from Chintara10 on Twitter. Can one of you savvy uploaders get it on this app so I can get it on my phone. It’s super cool and I’m super not
Implement the UBI and give everyone their deserved $1,000/mo. That's a great start. Large companies won't miss losing a measly 10% of billions of dollars and they'll look good if they pay into the VAT. You deserve profit from Facebook and the like selling your personal information.
Edit: For you doubters and haters
@ImAWhoreForThor, how to crash an economy 101
@Bloodthirsty Penguin, experts disagree with you.
@ImAWhoreForThor, basic economic theory agrees with me, as does common sense.
@Bloodthirsty Penguin, looks like you didn't learn basic economic theory and your common sense is off. Once again, you're wrong and there's plenty of experts who've written on it to prove it. I'm even reading a book about it as I type this. Just make sure that WHEN it is implemented you opt out. Wouldn't want to be a hypocrite.
@ImAWhoreForThor, feel free to evidence some of these experts. Also reply to this post with the economic theory that says this is a good idea. And dont link articles, you're the expert here so explain to me using basic economic theorem how this is a good idea. I'll wait.
@Bloodthirsty Penguin, Thomas Paine and Martin Luther King Jr., and quite a few presidents. That's all you'll get from me. I'm not doing the work for you. Educate yourself. There's more than one method of UBI and that, right there, tells me you don't know much about it.
@ImAWhoreForThor, ok, so you're giving me two names, and 0 evidence? I am educated in economics, hence why I said show me economic theorem that proves your point and I'll be happy to discuss it with you, but if you wont (or more likely, can't) give any evidence based on economic theory, I doubt the idea of UBI is realistic.
@Bloodthirsty Penguin, I wasn't going to waste the time doing the work to prove you wrong because, like everyone like you, no amount of time and evidence will change your mind. It's why I stopped trying to educate anti-vaxxers long ago. Just like them, you'll deny facts and move goalposts.
You're not worth it. Someone supposedly "educated" in economics would already know what I'm eluding to and know who supports/doesn't support UBI.
@ImAWhoreForThor, nice presumptions, to be honest I'm more than happy to hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong if you can show me evidence of it. I dont move goalposts, it doesnt benefit anyone nor the discussion. Facts cant be denied, especially in core economic theorem.
That's a logical fallacy right there and shows your lack of economic knowledge; someone who's knowledgeable in economics doesnt automatically know everything about people supporting UBI. A behavioral economist isn't going to know any of that, just as a labour economist wont be knowledgeable on every behavioral study. I would have thought that someone who claims to understand economics like yourself would be aware of the vast differences in different fields of economic study.
Then just humour me on this then, you said in your earlier post that you want to give people $1000 a month for UBI, correct? Is this going to be available to everyone? Or is it just for the unemployed? Is there an income cut off? I'm curious.
@ImAWhoreForThor, "UBI and similar cash programs began picking up steam in the mid 20th century during the industrial revolution as early as 1918. With developed countries producing more than ever, the idea resurfaced with intensity being backed by numerous Nobel-Prize winning economists such as Milton Friedman and F.A. Hayek.
In the 1960s, Martin Luther King Jr. gave his support, alongside over 1,000 economists from over 125 universities who signed a letter to President Nixon requesting income guarantees.
The idea of a guaranteed income floor was pushed into a bill under President Nixon in 1970 where it passed the United States House of Representatives. It died in the Senate because Democrats sought a higher guaranteed income.
Today the idea has gained support from Mark Zuckerberg, Robert Reich, Elon Musk, Bill Gross, Richard Branson, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Noam Chomsky, the conservative Cato Institute, and many others." -https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-ubi/
@ImAWhoreForThor, remember when I asked you not to post links to articles, as I wanted to know your personal beliefs for UBI and not just regurgitating someone else's?
Also still waiting on your idea of how UBI would be implemented, unless of course, you dont know how youd do it.
@ImAWhoreForThor, it’s been proven to not work in a completely homogeneous culture. It. Won’t. Work
@ImAWhoreForThor, lol “experts” that confirm your bias. Many more use their brain and know it will never work.
@big freedom, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_advocates_of_basic_income
@big freedom, it's been proven to work. But continue to ignore my sources. Also, explain how Martin Luther King Jr. is a biased supporter?
@ImAWhoreForThor, you don’t know what confirmation bias is, everything you’ve said is now invalid.
And if you don’t think MLK had a bias, my previous statement is verified.
@big freedom, your feet must hurt from all your hilarious jumps to conclusions.
You can't be biased with facts, bruh.
Research into Basic Income by MIT:
Roosevelt Institute Study into UBI:
if you don't want to read the whole study, here is their link discussing their findings:
@ImAWhoreForThor, lmao. That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard “you can’t be biased with facts”
I’m going to jump to another conclusion. You’re a college freshman who’s just taken your first intro to humanities class. Your TA is super cool and has told you all about the virtues of Marx.
Pretty damn close I bet
@ImAWhoreForThor, my favorite part in all this is how you’re going through and downvoting my comments and upvoting your own.
“Self high five” - ImAWhoreForThor
@big freedom, you're right. I should have worded it "facts can't be biased".
You call other posts stupid but continue to jump to conclusions, use ad hominem, and have offered nothing to refute the studies I've posted. How odd of you.
I've also been out of college for about 8 years.
@big freedom, so, yeah, you're going to offer nothing of substance concerning a conversation, so good riddance.
Even the huffPo says it won’t work.
There are literally thousands of articles on why it won’t work. You won’t listen to them, why would I think I could convince you.
It’s hard to win an argument against a smart person and it’s impossible to win against a stupid person.
@ImAWhoreForThor, so... you’ve been out of college for eight years, which means intro to humanities was about 11 years ago +\- does it not concern you that the shît you’re spouting sounds exactly like something they teach to softheaded freshmen? Have you learned nothing about how the world is different than academia?
@ImAWhoreForThor, hey man, remember when I asked for your own economic intuition instead of sources? Still waiting.
@ImAWhoreForThor, stop trying to make Andrew yang happen. He’s not going to happen
@ImAWhoreForThor, still waiting...
Wow, not only are most of y’all lacking any nuance in your critiques, you don’t even seem to understand the basic concept of reparations.
(First and foremost it’s not about a check in the mail, it’s about investing in disenfranchised communities)
Except she is currently a representation of a subset of the people and it's easy to call it pandering when you're not the beneficiary
It's funny because it's creative and true but it's lame too because it's her job is to represent.
@StereotypicalAnomaly, she’s a panderer not a representation. If she’s a representation of the people, god help us