One thing I learned from the last election is that Polls are just made up numbers they like to use. Means absolutely nothing in the actual election.
@seeUpee, polls are all worthless, especially ones involving trump
@seeUpee, That's horse race journalism for ya
Ok guys I'm bringing it back
Sir... there are politics in my funny.
If they would just get rid of the stupid electoral college then things would be more fair
@benderama, yeah the “polls” were right in Hillary’s case because she crushed Trump in the popular vote
@K1l, there should only be a popular vote
@benderama, then california would decide every election. electoral college protects individual groups not just the loudest bunch of tantrum throwers
@Master Gooches, you are just scared because if they threw out the dumb electoral college then republicans would never win an election again and that’s why right wingers hold on to that dinosaur so tightly
@benderama, an idiotic notion sold to soft heads who don’t understand how our constitution works
@benderama, mob rule is not democratic OR constitutional. Move to another country, please.
@Pubmarine Shamwich, wow really struck a nerve there huh? Can’t wait till the whole world is one big country
@Pubmarine Shamwich, no, mob rule is democracy. That's why we're constitutional Republic.
@benderama, either you're a blathering retard, or a troll that's serving out black propaganda. Either way you got what what you want, people took you serious for a moment. Congratulations.
@benderama, lmao Hitler tried it first. Copy cat!
@Master Gooches, then 40 million people would decide every election. electoral college protects individual groups not just the loudest bunch of tantrum throwers.
@benderama, downvotes say it all guy. sorry you don’t want government to represent everybody
@benderama, come to Canada where Alberta, the province that makes the most, is forced to send billions of dollars to Ontario and Quebec because they have more people than us. Yet our provincial budget is in a deficit yet Quebec is in a surplus.
Google transfer payments...
How does it make any sense that more people wanted Hillary and we get the orange idiot instead
@benderama, electoral college, keeps things fair at the state level, which is much more important than people understand
@Fortnite Is Trash, I don’t see a reason to have different states and different sets of rules for each one, this is one country and should vote as a whole and not as separate states
@Fortnite Is Trash, lets put it to a nation wide vote 🗳 weather or not we keep the electoral college
@Fortnite Is Trash, When we’re voting for someone to run the country, citizens of the US should have an equal say in the president regardless of what state they’re from. The people should have a say, not states.
State government and representatives exist to handle things at the state level.
@K1l, while the current electoral college is broken, but popular vote is not the answer. You'd just end up with the opposite problem, where the entire center of the country and rural america is ignored. The reason the electoral college was introduced was to avoid this "oppression of the majority".
@Finndogs, how about all the people who’s vote doesn’t count because say they live in a red state and no matter how those people vote their vote doesn’t count cause the state is always going to be red
@benderama, I'm against states spending all their electoral votes on who wins the most districts, but that is based on state laws. Maine and (I believe) Iowa actually cast their electoral votes per district. Meaning if the state as a whole is red, the electoral vote of a blue district with be blue. Don't blame the electoral college for this, blame states who choose how to dispense their votes.
@Finndogs, I just think electing a president is a country wide decision not a state level decision, the state level government should stay out of it
@benderama, too be fair, the President is the President of the United States, not the President of the United Peoples. Forgive me for the ugly point above, but the states still have a voice by virtue of being in the Union. Why should all of Wyoming lose a vote just because LA tends to vote Democrat. Why should the farmers of middle America (who own the most land) suffer because New York doesn't care about farming policy.
@K1l, because there is a huge difference between - Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas... literally all of the other states - than CA and NY. Popular vote would have those 2 extremes choosing what happens in the rest of the country. And we would have civil war within a decade
@Finndogs, My point is that although some states may be underrepresented with a popular vote, a lot of people have their votes underrepresented.
Most states typically swing one way, which renders a lot of people’s votes useless if they vote against the rest of the state. A lot of votes get thrown away just because they dont agree with the rest of the state their in.
It’s really not right that someone who lives in bumfvck nowhere gets a more meaningful vote than someone who lives in a higher populated area.
Regardless of the electoral college, rural and middle America would still get nationwide representation through state representatives. That’s why that exists.
The thing is, the president is meant to make decisions that affect everyone, not just specific areas. He/she is meant to represent want the people want. Not what the states want. State representatives and state government focus on the individual issues of said state.
@big freedom, the things is though, NY and CA arent 2 singular things. They’re made up of millions and millions of people. Each who vote on their own individual opinions. And many of their votes get thrown away.
My main focus is on federal laws and policies. Every single person is affected by decisions on the federal level. Every single person should have an say in choosing a representative to make those decisions.
It’s not morally sound that a smaller group of people have an equal say to a larger group of people, just because the first group lives more spread apart.
It absolutely makes sense to have individual state governments to focus on issues that are specific to the state, but when we’re choosing someone to make decisions for all American CITIZENS, not states, the citizens should have the say.
@K1l, “some states may be... with popular vote”?
Popular/national vote is absolutely terrible idea.
What we need to actually do is to get Congress to actually do it’s fûcking job. President should not be nearly as important as we’ve made it out to be. If Congress did their job, we wouldn’t need legislative judges like we have now basically deciding laws.
President should be relatively unimportant role as part of 3 equal branches. But since Congress sucks and president chooses judges he’s basically become de facto head of 2 branches, and the third is powerless.
@K1l, but with national vote, almost every single person in 95% of county loses their voice. The reason behind electoral college remains absolutely valid and intrinsic to our republic. We are NOT a democracy and should remain true to what made us an incredibly effective form of government.
@K1l, you brought up the house of Representatives, but the fear that small states (and the people in those states) would lose their voice is why the Senate exists. Also, as mentioned in another comment of mine, I'm against states giving all their electoral votes based on who wins the most districts. I think it should be like Maine where blue districts give a blue electoral vote and red districts give a red electoral vote. A popular vote does change the president representing areas, since their is still the urban/rural difference. All popular vote will do is garentuee that urban interests is served.
@big freedom, okay, I actually agree with everything else you said. A branch such as congress is something that makes much more sense when it comes to deciding nationwide issues. It’s just that I think with the current way things work, the electoral college is a messy system, that doesnt even function the same way state to state
@Finndogs, I’d much rather have proportional votes in each state. That makes more sense than winner take all. Like CA for instance, mostly conservative except in the 2/3 major metro areas.
@big freedom, we'll said, I think a lot of people forget that the states are often diverse in opinion. People always think of California of a liberal wonderland, but on a map most of it is red.
@Finndogs, in this way I agree with your previous statements about District representational voting. My problem is the reverse of what the popular vote problem is, it would take away a lot of power from the city's. Which on its face sounds amazing, that would to far heavily favor Republicans. Since Democrats have been spending there time building up these pseudo metropolitan capitals. I would like to see what you're suggesting eventually, but it would be an unfair sudden shift. It may mean that these "liberal" states may start caring about the massive people they don't care about, or they may ditch districting altogether. The change would need to be slow or things could get crazy.
@benderama, have you ever taken a single history class that teaches even the most basic concept of our constitutional republic? The idea behind having independent states is unique and has made us into the wonderful nation that we are.
@That one lurker, that's why a split alternative is needed. It's can't favor one over the other. Problem is, that is very hard to find.
@Finndogs, it doesnt matter how much the farmers own. If they're in the minority and are voted against then that's how it is. A vote from New York is just as valuable as a vote from Nebraska.
@big freedom, he's kind of nuts or over emotional or something. I guess downvoting him in these political debates drove him to go through my upload history and downvote 5 of my uploads. I don't care about downvotes, if i did i wouldn't enter political debates, but this is just pathetic behavior. That's a form of lashing out to feel like you did something back to the other guy. I don't think that kind of person is interested in civil debate.
@TheWhiteWolf, while agreeable, if people in entire states never get represented then shouldn't they just leave the country? The problem is more complex than that because it should work the way you said it does. If every city and state were equally populated this probably wouldn't even be a problem
@Dephenistrator, I’m pretty sure he/she/it is a spoiled little brat. No common sense or debate skills at all but very vocal in spouting nonsense
@TheWhiteWolf, I'm not saying the farmers owning land makes them more valuable. What I'm saying I that's why low populated states are low. They are the minority who have an incredibly valuable job. Should they be punished because their important jobs demand a low population? Equally, are you implying minorities should be ignored, because that ideology leads to a mess of problems. Even the founding fathers warned against the "tyranny of the majority".
@TheWhiteWolf, tyranny of the minority then? You are clueless if that’s what you believe
@benderama, you need to get out and travel. Find out how things work outside the coastal bubble. Explore fly-over country.
@benderama, also, the name of our country is the United States of America, as you seem to have forgotten.
@Hot Coffee, I’ve been all through Mexico, by car, and not the tourist areas, I liked it, and I’ve been to 30 states
@benderama, yay! Mob rule! Now you need to read history while you’re touring fly-over country!
This will be lost on you, but you are exhibit A for why this nation was created as it was.
@benderama, try living in these places for a few months, not just passing through. A day or two somewhere barely lets you get to know the geography, let alone the people or their needs and desires.
@Hot Coffee, I’ve lived in New Jersey, Alabama, Colorado, and California
@benderama, with the exception of Alabama, not much diversity of thought in that list, but if I had to guess, you were in Birmingham @ UAB, probably didn’t leave the shelter of campus and probably thought you were making major sacrifices being there and couldn’t wait to leave