I don’t care either way. I am registered Democrat but consider myself an Independent. My views are not wholly supported by any party other than myself.
@AceWolf456, man, this meme is for you
@Hot Coffee, well in my experience this means Liberals. If not, you may be correct. I only know that I’d rather have no political parties at all.
@AceWolf456, libertarians generally believe in minimal government and maximum freedom. They are the ones that meme about taxation being theft. They are somewhat in line with classical liberal values, but liberals in the current paradigm are generally Democrats. At least in my experience, liberals are people that want big government, i.e. lots of social programs and economic regulations and taxes, while conservatives want small government. Libertarians ideally want no government beyond what is necessary for defense against foreign powers.
@AceWolf456, Think Ron Swanson.
@AceWolf456, imma agree with you. Vote on your principles, regardless of the party.
@AceWolf456, are you implicating you’re a party? Fvcking lit. 🔥🔥😎
The problem is that libertarian candidates take libertarianism to far and push foward policies that would ultimately end up with corportism.
No garry i know you hate regulations and government but if you take away restrictions on corporations theyre gonna end up as one giant mega monopoly.
@CocoasBro, while that could be true in some cases, the only a way corporation can hold a monopoly is if they provide a better service than anyone else for less, or the barrier to entry into the industry is high. If you look at the past, you will see that the only way opressive monopolies have appeared is due to lobbying for regulations that increase the barrier to entry. Essentially, big business needsto bribe the government for a monopoly if they want maximum profit, or else they have to actually out compete every other business.
@CocoasBro, cool story, bro. Lemme know when you figure out how much influence places like Bear Sterns, Raytheon, and Boeing have in this govt.
@Wordsarefun, its true big business use government regulation to help squash competitors but they could also just use their money to crush competitors as well. Tactics as opening a store adjacent and undercuting any price a small business could afford even to a loss in profit.
@Contrarian, that has nothing to do with anything.
@CocoasBro, "We care about personal liberties and decentralizing the federal government." Cool; my state won't let gays marry. "States' rights!" But our personal liberties? "sTaTeS' rIgHtS!
@Jdrawer, are you trying to say that the two statements are contrary to one another.... because they arnt.
@CocoasBro, I'm saying that libertarians are so hopped up on removing the power to infringe upon personal liberties from the federal government that they'd rather defend the states' abilities to do that.
@Jdrawer, ahhh i understand now fair point.
@Wordsarefun, it's not about having the better service but about having more influence. I guarantee that if the US became a completely free market then state funded companies from China would gain a competitive advantage
@Jdrawer, I’d delineate libertarianism from anti-federalism, but you are right in that the two often combine in modern politics.
Other than the fact that they would destroy workers rights and minimum wage, and rent control and such.
@ThePandaPool , but we'd also pay almost nothing in taxes, so that'd be a win.
@Doctor Yak, not sure you can have libertarian ideals work in a big city. The biggest weakness of libertarian ideals is they assume a utopian idea of humanity i.e. people will always work hard for themselves.
As a real world example of why libertarian ideals fall short, just look at Amber Heard and her rampant disregard for reality, lie, cheat, steal, and spiteful and needless destruction of Johnny Dept’s career.
@Hot Coffee, Our position doesn’t promise a utopian dream. We acknowledge the bad, but posit that what we have now is worse.
@A Deformed Penis, don’t get me wrong, I love the idea that the best government is that which governs least, but we need some level of government.
There’s definitely a discussion for how much or little we need, and this used to be most of what politics was about, but a government with killing power is needed.
@ThePandaPool , like so many libertarian candidates advocate for open borders. Thats just what the american worker needs a billion people flooding into america all of whom are willing to work as slaves here.
@Hot Coffee, their problem is theyre to idealogicaly pure. They take their ideas to their natural conclusions instead of curtailing them to fit reality.
@ThePandaPool , ~2% of all hourly wage workers in the US make at or below minimum wage. Which means 98% of hourly jobs pay based on competition to keep good labor, competition doesn't disappear just cause minimum wage does. Your concern is unfounded.
@Abe Froman, minimum wage sets a minimum for competition, meanwhile that does not dismiss any other point. The only real fault in the ideology is how much of a terrible effect it would have on the separation of wealth.
@ThePandaPool , well consider the other points dismissed then.... the LP is pro local union, and rent control is set by the local government not the fed.
And please explain this separation of wealth and which Libertarian policy would cause this? I genuinely have not heard of this.
@ThePandaPool , liberals often forget about the lower class, lol.
@ThePandaPool , didn’t know citizens are workers had separate rights....also rent control would be good. It kind of works based off of how well the market is doing in those areas, like how free markets work....but who knows
@Captain Correction, libertarian literally has nothing to do with liberals...
@Hockman9, you know damn well that if businesses are given free reign over how employees are treated, the employees are gonna be the ones to lose.
@ThePandaPool , let me stop you there. Libertarians would NOT destroy minimum wage and workers rights. They’d give the power to the states. For example, minimum wages that would benefit the citizens of NYC and LA would topple the economy of North Dakota. Let the states set their own minimums and benefits that would most benefit their citizens.
@A Lost Artichoke, I'm impressed with how passionate you are about something you clearly know nothing about. But I suppose that's what internet comment sections are for.
@Hot Coffee, libertarian =\= anarchist
@big freedom, it hardly decides the argument, but
“Anarchism" generally refers to the anti-authoritarian (libertarian) wing of the socialist movement. "Libertarian socialism" has been a synonym for "anarchism" since 1890, as has the term "libertarian" through the mid-20th century.
Cohn, Jesse (April 20, 2009). "Anarchism". In Ness, Immanuel (ed.). The International Encyclopedia of Revolution and Protest. Oxford, UK: John Wiley & Sons, Ltd. pp. 1–11.
@ThePandaPool , not really since the labor of employees are reflected to turn a profit. I guess if you believe all contracts are is@how one exploits the other then I could see that, but that would assume that all structures in business are based on power and control and not meritocracy. I’ll let you in on something. People who run or manage people don’t want people who are miserable and mistreated. It only makes their life worse. Plus people who are mistreated enough will leave. I know alot who were my micro managers that work for cooperations and you could tell there’s a reason they are only able to make it to staff manager. When they left due to those dictators they started their own side gig or when interviewing they asked real questions about the culture and found great jobs. But yes if employees had control over your rights and could do anything they wanted, you’d be treated sub human because that wouldn’t be a free transaction that would be slavery.
@Hockman9, it may not be immediate, but it would all revert to employees being mistreated, because "it's the only way we can compete" or "we would not be able to stay in business" just like all the rich said when we wanted to stop slavery and child labor.
You need to be a higher intelligence to understand the nuances of anarchists who like money
STOP CALLING LIBERALS LIBERTARIANS
@Guy Fawkes, I don’t think that’s what is happening in this meme, but maybe I’m missing something.
@Hot Coffee, well rereading it has only served to confuse me. So now were both lost :/
@Guy Fawkes, sweet! At least we’re together!
@Guy Fawkes, damn libtards liberally calling libertarians liberals.
@Guy Fawkes, go google libertarianism. For a human example, think “Ron Swanson” from parks and recreation type values. I.e. limited government, low taxes, you work for yourself, socially you can do what you want. It’s practically socially liberal and economically conservative. Libertarianism is NOT being a liberal
@juicy steak, i consider myself pretty much libertarian
@Hot Coffee, I’m confused on what Guy Fawkes is going for as they seem purposefully obtuse, but some folks in the comments are conflating the two.
Nhaaaaaaaa... Conservative Republican all the way!
@seeUpee, imma have to agree with you, though they never have my vote guaranteed. They’ve got to prove they’re still upholding the ideal of freedom, personal responsibility, and hard work. So long as these are still core to the party I will be a Republican.
@Hot Coffee, you and me both!
@seeUpee, i used to be in the same boat until the past few years. My hang up with republicans (from my experience) are some outdated social beliefs. Mainly: 1. I don’t give a flying F what your sexual orientation is and I don’t think the government should either. Marry whoever you want and leave me alone 2. Satan’s lettuce. If booze is legal, weed should be too. I know it’s mostly legal now but why is it even a discussion at this point? Prohibition was a disaster when we tried to outlaw alcohol. What do we do a few decades later? Do the same thing with weed. A complete was of tax payers dollars trying to enforce stupid laws.
TLDR: do you and I’ll do me.
@Pysch is Awesome, more human cultures have history with alcohol than with weed. They attacked culture as much as a beverage. Still, if I could wave a magic wand and swap weed and alcohol’s position on legality I would.in the simplest sense it harms the brain and body less than booze. Still problems with dui and all but fewer problems.
Still, that’s my personal views. My political view (how I want the government to act) is more in line with what you said.
@seeUpee, Believe me when I tell you that nobody hates the Republican base more than the Republican establishment. And yes, this includes democrats. In my many years following and participating in politics I’ve been able to boil it down to basically this:
Democrats can’t govern on their stated beliefs and Republicans don’t want to.
This is why you saw over 1,000 State and nationwide seats lost by Democrats after they rammed thru ObamaCare. And why Republicans held show vote after show vote to repeal it until they actually had the power to do it (2016) at which point they never followed thru (and actually made it worse). It’s also likely not a coincidence that Romney was the GOP nominee in Obama’s reelect. Obamacare was deeply unpopular during the 2012 campaign and the GOP ran the one guy that took that issue of the table. RomneyCare was literally the blueprint for Obamacare. Bottomline, there is no true opposition party to the a Democrats and there hasn’t been for decades.
@Hot Coffee, I’ve voted both ways before because I refuse to straight ticket. There are also so many times I’ve come close to voting Republican, and then they get on the fundamental Christian psycho train. Big ole nope nope for me.
@SchroedingerPussPuss, I don’t blame you, though it’s ironic that the Democrats are being completely consumed by a fundamentalist religious movement that just happens to be non-theistic (which makes it harder to recognize).
Intersectionalism is going to destroy the Democrats if they don’t start standing up to it.
@seeUpee, the problem with Republicans is that they lie about being fiscally conservative.
@big freedom, you are welcome to your own opinion... but if you want that big freedom... you know who to vote for
My problem with what I can tell libertarianism is, is that it leaves no room for nuance in decision making, it ends up being: will this have more government, yes: fvck that, no: let's do it
@magrar, you’ve pretty much nailed it. Self sufficiency is basically it. The least among us would struggle heavily in a libertarian society because only local charity would be there to pick you up if you fall and we don’t have enough structure for that now. It also requires you to constantly make good decisions because of the lack of a safety net. I’m a libertarian but I see the flaws in the ideology. It’s not for everyone.
The way I see it, every political party is equally made up of assholes who don't care about anyone but themselves and are just trying to make money or live easy lives
Too much freedom is a bad thing.
@Mantis Tobaggan, I’m curious as to why you think that? I’m not attacking your point of view or anything I just want to better understand your perspective.
@Jauffre, I believe that people should be free to do whatever the hell they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else or their property.
Values maybe, but uncompromising implementation is foolish.
I just tell people I like guns and solar panels
Just tell us you think there should be no age of consent and go
No thanks, I prefer not to be associated with pedophiles. I call myself a Forwardist.
Minus their foreign policy, yes I agree