So are you going to become a garbage collector, or go to trade school to be a mechanic, or plumber, or electrician? Should you not have to go through the trade school to do this? Should we force people who want to go into teaching or daycare into more male concentrated roles? Or can we let people have jobs they want and be happy that drs are the most qualified based off of drive and not quotas?
@ssj343, i think the counterargument involves discrimination in sought-after jobs. not a lot of people want to be trash collectors, so its not a competitive hiring atmosphere, so their hiring practices are less scrutinized. a lot of people want to be engineers, men and women, but there seems to be workplace discrimination against women in engineering with preference placed on men. teaching isnt really highly sought-after either, but if there is a sought-after female-dominated career field where men are discriminated against, then yeah, we should ameliorate that. quotas are a bad example because demographic acceptance quotas are unconstitutional, but applicant curves to combat discrimination amongst qualified applicants seems fair
@ssj343, I’m in school to be an electrician for about a year and a half now. Still have yet to have a woman in class.
@ssj343, in my 8 months as an electrician, I have only seen 1 female in the construction industry, outside designers. She was a painter, in a family business. She did touch up work oh, so it barely counts
@ssj343, i cant find the funny? How is the picture funny?
@Petersquatch, only female I ever saw in construction was also a touch up painter
@CellSword, actually, they also hire cleaners to vaccume and sh!t after everyone else is done, and they are often female.
@Hoban Washburne, If the discrimination can be proven outright then those who discriminate ought to be penalized for it legally. So employers who hire engineers discriminate against women? Prove it, and if it can be proven, then action ought to be take that is appropriate to remedy it. The key is to actually prove it though, not with unfounded accusations, not with anecdotal evidence or personal stories, but with hard proof that an employer is engaging in discrimination. Affirmative action (in this case directed at women) has absolutely no place in a free and fair society, so again I’ll say, if discrimination can be proven, then let it be proven and let legal action be taken.
@Block1187, I agree wholly but my understanding of the issue is that it is more often a problem that happens prior to hiring. As a physicist there was only 2 or the 12 of us graduating who are women. From what I understand that is a higher number than average. When taking classes with these two they shared that it’s hard to be the only women and have guys too often talk down to them, hit on them (awkwardly), or generally just single them out day after day. Occasionally the guys were outright assholes (but only occasionally). In short, it’s hard to be surrounded by people different and have everybody know you are different. In time maybe, enough of those ladies will show up that others will feel comfortable and eventually the workforce will even out. Personally I would love having more women with whom I could talk physics/ engineering.
...I mean the only time I've seen a woman as a construction worker was in an anime and it was the mom of two step sisters
@ptitty1231, this sounds like a porn plot
@CellSword, close, it was a yuri
Wait, what jobs are female dominated?
I know nurses used to be one, but the men conquered that one, no?
hair stylist? I see both man and women. 0.o
maybe I should watch TV more.
@TurtleBlink, I think I've had maybe two male nurses care for me in my entire life. I wouldn't say men exactly "conquered" that role.
And now I work for a freightliner dealership, the COO of all of the company is female, and 2 of my 4 bosses at the one I work at are female. The most qualified individual should get the job, not just because it's some quota they are trying to meet. It's a real fast way to ruin a company.
@TurtleBlink, no still mostly female dominated. More men are going in them because it pays well and needs more people.
@Not him again, I see. Thank you for informing me. I am stuck in a small city where things seem even that I am ignorant of the rest of country/world. But I agree, the person who is most qualified. Thank you.
@BlazingBowman, I see. I was wrong. Thank you.
@AndorraBall, you're right. I shouldnt let my experience define what is really happening around the country be the example to represent everyone.Thank you.
Welp in Canada we got the equal pay equity act. helps women, visible minorities, first nations, and those with disabilities........ focusing on filling organizations with a quota of a certain demographic is kinda hard, however making sure those who have earned their position are payed equal to others in their field and position isn't super hard...... Thanks Justice Roselia
@danied1, we have that in america to. In fact most western nations have an equal pay act. Canadas not special.
@BlazingBowman, True but in America your act is more quota based in organizations which is slightly different from Canada's. It kinda just comes down to how the pay equity act is addressed by HR. Its not that Canada is special I was just using an example from something im familiar with
@danied1, i have no idea how to adress that. Good day sir.
@BlazingBowman, And a good day to you sir
@danied1, I dont think it's quite fair to compare a 89% white country with a 73% white country. Especially with our background with race relations it is a much more significant problem.
@CellSword, that number isn’t even accurate for the US. The BS 73-77% white statistics only comes about when you collapse multiple other ethnicities that are “white passing” including the entirety of all latino and hispanic groups, as well as pacific islanders, and in some cases native/Inuit populations into the category of “Total White Population” (yes, thats the real, official terms for this contrived and intentionally misleading and obfuscated “demographic”).
In reality, only between about 59-61.3% of the US population is white, and by around 2050, their share of the population is expected to drop below the 50% mark; “creating a majority of minorities” as demographic forecasters have taken to calling it.
@danied1, it’s been illegal to pay people differently in most western nations for awhile based on race sex etc. we’ve had laws on the books since the 60s in the us.
But deeper studies show that there isn’t as big a pay gap as people talk about and it’s not always in men’s favor when you compare apples to apples. If you take a 10 yr mechanical engineer male and female for example. Of course if we take an engineer and compare it to a janitor he’s gonna make more. That engineer is also gonna make less than a doctor.
@BigJohnson86, I know its been a while brov, Justice Roselia was WW2 survivor before immigrating to Canada. Pay equity and Pay gap are also 2 different areas. it isn't about a wage gap, its more about making sure that those groups have equal opportunities to apply for jobs that have seen bias, nepotism, etc...
@danied1, all of those things have been illegal since 1964 in the USA. I can’t imagine most western countries hadn’t banned it by then or shortly there after. Another law isn’t gonna change the way people work.
@BigJohnson86, Ya i don't know how to make this any clearer because i don't think your getting it. EQUAL pay and Pay EQUITY are not the same. The difference is in the solution to the issue.
@CellSword, Ya um that literally makes no sense my dude, unfortunately when you 2 countries with deep industry connections, not comparing their organizational differences because of a variation in race....... like this is kinda what the problem is with your equal pay act. You kinda just stopped at the some hard data and said yup it's good. your equal pay act pretty much says to organizations we just need to have a certain % of minorities, disabled etc.... aaaaaaand yup problem solved! when the main issue wasn't really solved.
@danied1, sure dude I see you as wrong so I guess that's that
@CellSword, Ya thats another pretty big American problem 👌
@danied1, and thinking you know everything is a you problem 👌
@CellSword, Well no, i can just assume from how you seemed to pull race from a comment about pay equity which is impacted more by those with physical and mental disabilities (thats affects ALL races my guy 😉). that you probably don't more than maybe a quick Google search........ but I also work in HR and business strategies for Stats Canada so this kinda my area
@danied1, I'm sorry I thought we were talking about demographic quotas
@CellSword, It's cool, im actually black and the reason why the comment irked me is because the american equal pay act pretty much say to a company just have x amount of a certain race or sex or etc... and its cool. this kinda means that someone who is lets say a white guy who was the most qualified for a entry level position might be looked over while on the other end of the spectrum it doesn't mean that the person of colour, sex etc.... will have the same opportunity for an executive level position as a more 'Caucasian' looking male.
@CellSword, I apologise for the American comment too...... I have cousins in Miami that would have been pretty pissed off by it.
@danied1, oh you dont need to tell me about this issue, I work in software development, it is a very very lucrative and not physically demanding field, therefore as I am a white Male, it's much harder for me to get a job at a lot of tech companies. Because they are primarily white male... I cant speak to an executive position as I haven't held one before.
@CellSword, EXACTLY! in Canada pay equity dictates that a proportionate amount of people should be given equal opportunity for a position and the most qualified should be hired. This creates a safeguard for the company because it can clearly explain why this person was chosen. The tech industry has proportionately more men than women. It doesn't mean that some dude who rightly deserved a job should be looked over, it just means maybe interview a couple more women and if you hire a guy then it should be clear as to why he was more of an asset compared to the rest of the applicants.
@danied1, that makes way more sense than our system. The point I was trying to make is that there is a LOT more bad blood in the u.s. based on our history with race and therefore a good portion of the minorities in our country like and support this type of hiring as it gives them an advantage. What most of us white people feel though is just pick the best person for the job, we (the vast majority of us) honestly dont give a fvck what your race, sex, gender, or orientation is
@danied1, I really don’t think you get what the equal opportunity act of 1964 is. It sets in law that you cannot pick anyone at any level for any reason other than they’re the best qualified. Any bias based on any factor from college admissions to job interviews must be done on merit and is against federal law to chose based on any other reason. New laws people want will shift us from equality of opportunity to an equality of outcome ideal or be redundant.
@BigJohnson86, No i really don't think you do. That civil rights act made it illegal for discrimination based on sex, race etc..... OK! Now as an organization what's the quickest way to legally abide by it?? QUOTAS!! Now how do you as a person of one of those groups, act in the event of you being passed over for a promotion with perceived discriminatory reasons...... You can't really win the lawsuit unless you have irrefutable proof. Once again dude, the example of sexual harassment in the workforce being illegal. doesn't means its still not occurring in frequent numbers i.e Uber tech bro culture in Silicon Valley. If you still don't get it think of how rape is illegal yet somehow hard to get a solid conviction on in court.
Yeah! Wheres the goddamn male quota on birth-giving-mothers, huh???