Scouts are fun now
So are we going to completely ingnore that literally every other scouting program is co-ed?
Not to mention every other country’s programs are (that have them)
Also. Girl Scouts has turned into glorified arts and crafts and what used to be Boy Scouts is on the same path anyway...
@carguy25, Yeah, as an ex-scout, it makes sense to just combine them. Girl scouts and boy scouts already camped together anyway. Not to mention that it brings together a larger troop. Makes 0 sense to have two smaller troops from one school or district.
@carguy25, Boys can only be boys when surrounded by other boys. They will not try to act like boys and be free to have fun when they are too busy worrying about what the girls will think. If the girls want a girl scouts similar to the boy scouts, just have them change their programs.
@Ze Grammar Nazi, the system only works if people don't suck. And honestly being the leader of my troop for a while the only people who will ruin that are the stinky foot parents.
@Ze Grammar Nazi, Exactly. That's also why women shouldn't hold important jobs! How can men focus with women around judging them! Stay in the kitchen!
@Ze Grammar Nazi, in real life everything is coed.
@Implicit88, Alright then. What would happen if a boy tried to join the Girl Scouts? Tell me. Would people accept it? Or would there be national outrage? I'm leaning towards outage.
@Ze Grammar Nazi, there's national outrage about everything related to gender or race so of course there would be.
@Ze Grammar Nazi, that’s naive and incorrect. Boys have no problem being boys in any of the other scout programs carguy mentioned, plus all the other coed activities kids can do around that age. Maybe you had a different personal experience but don’t assume that to be the norm
@Ze Grammar Nazi, but yeah go ahead and just angrily downvote people that disagree with you. Don’t bother giving any evidence to back yourself up, that might take some actual work you know?
@TR8R, It's just pointless to argue with leftwing, liberal, morons.
@Ze Grammar Nazi, I’m none of those things though, so that’s invalid. Try again.
@Bowie Stars, tradition is stupid
@whynot260, I'm tired and took your comment seriously and was shocked that you had more upvotes than downvotes. This doesn't add anything, I just thought it was kind of funny
@carguy25, I don't have a problem with all the other options being coed. But it is good for guys to have guy time and girls to have girl time. Both scouts need to get away from the arts and crafts and back into the actual scouting that use to happen. But they won't, so I give it a few more years till they disappear from the face of the earth.
@Ze Grammar Nazi, when you take the stance that it’s pointless to argue, you concede defeat. When you see your opposition as purposefully stupid rather than misguided, you eliminate any chances of conciliation.
I mean, I agree that removing any male only spaces is a really bad idea, and an upsetting one considering the extreme pushback against any males trying to enter a female only space, but that method of ‘arguing’ won’t win you any support.
@I Are Lebo, I see your point. I just can't bring myself down to their level just to argue.
@Ze Grammar Nazi, that’s totally fair but going “you’re all dumb I can’t even” will turn everyone against you, including those that might otherwise be on your side.
@TR8R, you don’t believe guys behave differently around girls? Pretty much every guy friend I’ve had since I was a kid understood that there are things guys can’t/won’t do or say in mixed company that they would sitting around with their buddies.
@BigJohnson86, boys growing up are taught that masculinity is bad. It’s going to fück up at least two generations of men.
It’s absolutely hypocritical how so many women or black people fight against men or whites having their own spaces because “all spaces are theirs” while simultaneously fighting to invade every one of those spaces.
“You can’t have a white only fraternity on campus, that’s racist!” (Has black only fraternity where whites aren’t allowed in the building)
“You can’t keep women out of your men’s club, that’s sexist!” (Has numerous organizations dedicated to the exclusive use of women)
“You can’t exclude trans people from organized competitive sports, that’s transphobic!” (MtF transitioners like Mack Beggs blows away the competition because he has an unfair advantage)
If they didn’t have double standards they wouldn’t have any standards at all.
@I Are Lebo, I agree with a lot of that. I believe we should teach nuance rather than blind acceptance. There’s a time and a place for scratching my @ss and unless we been married 10 years it’s not in front of a girl. I don’t mind the idea of girls doing boyscout events. I do mind the idea guys shouldn’t be allowed time to themselves.
@BigJohnson86, I think a good example of what I’m talking about is the feminist attitude towards video games. Video games are mostly geared towards men, but the trend is shifting. It’s great that more women are interested in gaming and it’s socially acceptable now for adults to play video games.
But there’s a demographic of people that want to change video games to suit their preferences with no care given to the people that like video games how they are for what they are.
“THERE NEEDS TO BE EQUAL REPRESENTATION IN ALL MEDIA AND THERE’S NO OBESE LESBIANS WITH PINK HAIR IN HALO SO MYSOGENY REEEEEEEEEE!”
No. Just piss off. If you want to see a movie or a video game with your particular demographic represented, make it. Don’t bitch at other people because they aren’t basing their careers around your selfish desires. Be the change you want to see.
These types of people piss me off. Gfy, Anita Sarkeesian.
@carguy25, imho people would be better off avoiding boy scouts altogether. It has seriously gone downhill and now the eagle scouts who are graduating are less highly trained leaders and more like home schoolers who treat getting badges like some rpg video game
@Ze Grammar Nazi, down to our level? I welcome a logical debate with you. If you have evidence to back yourself up provide it and I’ll genuinely consider it. But when your immediate reaction is to insult and downvote you’ve already brought yourself down to a much lower level :/
@BigJohnson86, and they’re going to say those things in Boy Scouts? Unlikely. Obviously guys should have time just to themselves and their close friends, but adding girls to the scouts isn’t going to subvert the masculinity of any of the boys there.
@TR8R, you think teenage boys have sexual thoughts/jokes they wouldn’t tell a girl? You don’t think teenage boys are already aware that they can’t say these things to girls? Are you serious right now? We’re not talking about 6 yr olds. I looked it up and scouts are recommended from 11-17 and you must be older than 10 to join.
@BigJohnson86, they never had issues saying those things around me. Maybe I just seemed more like one of the guys idk. But from what I heard as a teen nobody made those jokes in the scouts anyway, most troop leaders were strict on inappropriate stuff like that. Soooooo yeah idk what to tell ya mate. Doesn’t really seem like anything would dramatically change, there are many coed scouting groups that function perfectly well.
@TR8R, you have very different scouts than we did. When we went out the leader would always set up away from the fire and retire early. They knew we didn’t want to say those things with him present. As well as just generally scratching or farting and other “boy” behaviors. You say they had no problem saying them around you but from what you heard nobody made the jokes at scouts. How did you hear them when apparently no one wants to say them? Or do they want to say/do these things but know polite society frowns on them?
@BigJohnson86, im saying none of the boys had trouble saying inappropriate jokes around me in other coed settings mate. I had guy friends in the scouts who told me that their troop leaders were strict on stuff like that. Sounds like you definitely did have a unique scout experience.
@TR8R, no mine were strict on stuff like that too. Your missing the point I’m making so let me try a different way. Guys know there are things not said and done in mixed or polite company. We are taught from a young age not to swear and say or say lewd things in public. Examples are things like adjusting yourself or using bjtch or cvnt. Adults that don’t think that they and women aren’t considered by teenagers polite company are loosing touch. Guys have these thoughts and by never giving the kids a chance to express them in a non hostile environment are doing them a disservice. With an outlet for this they can both express themselves and learn where their peers are at and what less polite society considers acceptable/where the lines you can’t cross are.
@BigJohnson86, I feel like there are plenty of places to express those thoughts that isn’t scouts. Like you aren’t getting my point either. Boys aren’t suddenly going to be repressed because girls can participate in Boy Scouts. There are numerous coed scouting groups composed of well adjusted boys who are well adjusted and are perfectly aware of what lines can and can’t be crossed. But this just sounds like it’s gonna go in circles forever so let’s just stop here
@TR8R, but they are suddenly are being repressed. There is a situation where they now cannot express themselves the way they want to when they used to be able to because someone changed the rules. What do you think repressed means? You saying they don’t wanna say these things but even if they did they can do it elsewhere doesn’t change that fact and makes me think you get that they do want to behave differently but can’t now. Pointing out there are other coed groups constantly makes me ask why they need to be in this one at all.
@BigJohnson86, please refer to the last sentence of my above comment. It’s been interesting but I have no desire to keep spinning my tires and discussing the same thing over and over and over.
@TR8R, then don’t try to make a point then say the argument is over. I will just respond with my counter argument. I’m an @sshole who can’t stand when someone tries to take the last word, so I won’t let them and since you responded it looks like you are too.
@BigJohnson86, sorry I didn’t mean to come off that way. You make good points, I just disagree with your general assertion. Since we both have our ideas and don’t seem to want to change them, I figured it’d be best to just stop. That’s all :)
@TR8R, you don’t need to apologize. Be an @sshole when it’s not gonna hurt anyone. Don’t swallow everything you wanna say all the time otherwise you’ll hulk out one day. My feelings aren’t hurt and no one crossed a line they shouldn’t so don’t apologize for saying what you believe.
@carguy25, I was in Venture with my gf at the time... Can confirm we screwed multiple times on multiple trips, so it is still a possibility lol
@Salem, I agree but it’ll never happen
@Ze Grammar Nazi, When you don’t articulate an argument in a civil manner and result to name calling or bashing groups of people. You don’t need to bring your self down to their level because you’ve already gone far below it.
As I have learned to do. Though I typically say this when Its an extremely complex issue and I don’t feel like typing out long explanations. Sometimes you need to step back and say. “Nope, I’m not touching that subject or debate”. Especially when you see an argument that you know you’ll say something in anger. Take a break or don’t participate in the argument. If you’re angered by the subject to the point that your defense starts to become insults. You no longer have a winning argument nor an open mind on the subject. Your biases have taken over.
@I Are Lebo, id disagree that most video games are geared towards men. They are geared toward people who love fun. Like me 😊
@TR8R, the studies are fairly clear that much fewer women choose to be entertained by running around and killing each other than men are.
I’m not sure why @BigJohnsom86, is so hung up on the inappropriate joke part of the Boy Scout bonding experience. The problem with girls in the Boy Scouts is that it prevents boys from having the unique type of growth and bonding that is not possible in a co ed setting.
Boys and girls are different. They relate in different ways, and it is usually not appropriate for them to relate to the opposite sex the way they do their own. Boys and girls rarely roughhouse with each other and they rarely gossip together. Not that those are the only things boys or girls do, but there are male only activities that allow young boys to develop their masculinity and vice versa with girls.
This fight against any form of gender roles is unhealthy and will do far more harm long term than good. We will end up with the most confused generation yet. It’s not a good thing
@Ze Grammar Nazi, personal go right ahead. I have no problems with it. Just like guys can be cheerleaders if they choose to. They should have 2 scout programs and let whoever wants join whichever program.
@I Are Lebo, while your statement is correct in a sense it is also incorrect. We have created these gender type norms for a long time and that is why you have those assumptions. Think about babies before they are stereotypes. Males and females are equally likely to be mischievous. If you didn't know if the child was a boy or girl it would be hard to determine based on what just the child did. That said, males can still form bonds when females are around, think about school and work. Many people meet people in those areas and they are coed (for the most part). Coed could actually even teach the scouts more by allowing them to experience the real world and learn more about what is acceptable and what is not to different types of people. Most importantly personality is not a sex specific trait.
@Implicit88, you are entirely missing my point. Gender roles are not the result of a bunch of shadowy figures sitting in a dark room determining how boys and girls need to behave. They are evolved characteristics. If you never allow male only spaces for young boys they don’t develop their identities as males. They don’t develop an understanding of what it means to be male in today’s world.
Considering the near constant push for female ‘safe spaces’, the fact there is also a near constant push against male ‘safe spaces’ is very disturbing. It constitutes a very real attack against men in today’s society.
Do yourself a favour and actually listen to feminists discuss masculinity and then tell me that the majority of them don’t view masculinity in general to be a negative thing.
@I Are Lebo, they are not evolved characteristic. The roles are a social construct by definition. The only things that aren't social constructs is probably the need to procreate. Personality is a direct cause of genetics and nurture. Male changes overtime and evolves as a social construct( as do females). A male or female in todays world would be viewed like an outcast 500 years ago. As for safe spaces or feminist i could care less about those. I don't even think there is enough research to justify safe spaces promote mental health vs delaying the inevitable. I was raises by a single mother and many other people are and i did not grow up to be a women, just like many others.
@Implicit88, something is not the way you say it is simply because you throw out “by definition”.
Men aren’t stronger than women because society determines it. The hunter/gatherer dichotomy has existed for longer than society. There is a social aspect to sex/gender, yes. But that’s nowhere near the whole picture.
Great incentive to buy cookies! U help 2 people.
Biggest Lie Ever: Earning your Eagle will increase job opportunities
I was one rank away from Eagle Scout as a kid, when my troop dispanded due to not having enough people, for this reason and this reason alone, not to mention the fact that selling popcorn when the girls were selling cookies that were 1,000,000,000X better was impossible, I am completely for join girl and Boy Scouts
@liberachi , plus I (at at least two other people I knew in the troop) were secretly gay anyway so it’s not like there wasn’t any sexual tension before
@liberachi , as long as they keep girl scout cookies, then I don't care.
Girl scouts should go if we're doing this, because equality and fairness