Memes aside; black and Hispanic Americans are also more frequently impoverished (21.2%, 18.3%) than Asian or white Americans (10.0%, 8.7%) as well as a number of other factors resulting in hardships and as a result an increased chance for exposure to violence and crime.
edit: per sept. 2018 US Census Bureau statistics
@TheWhiteWolf, so... what youre saying is that we should eat the poor? 🍽
@TheWhiteWolf, 61% of blacks also grow up without fathers and it’s statistically proven that growing up in fatherless homes leads to increases in crime and impoverished conditions. Compared to whites and Asians(who generally have more traditional family ideals) both blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately more inclined to be born in “non-marital” situations and subsequently grow up in single parent homes. That leads back to the first point with statistics of single parent homes.
And these are statistics so yes there are always exceptions, anyone can push themselves to succeed out of less than ideal circumstances.
@TheWhiteWolf, so we should fix poverty not restrict firearms ownership?
@Richard Cypher, Hear, Hear
@TheWhiteWolf, I mean just because you're poor doesnt mean you can just shoot and kill people. I'm not saying that's what you're saying or meaning. Im just stating that it makes no sense. I grew up poor never once did I want to rob shoot or kill anyone. If you want a real statistic you should see how crime has increased ever since the Bible has been taken out of schools. You'd be surprised
@Richard Cypher, you make a good point but I just want to point out that everyone needs to keep in mind that correlation does not equal causation and it's a huge number of factors that go into the socioeconomic situations of different cultures
@tmo0792, is... is that last part supposed to be a joke?
@tmo0792, Crime is actually the lowest it has been since the 60s. There was a decent spike in the 90s but it has since dropped drastically lower. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/
The bible is a horrible, and frankly stupid place to look for morals.
The issue with crime is, as it has and will always be, primarily a class factor and not a race or religious factor. Its been proven that the lower class you are born in, the higher your statistical chance is to be s criminal. Your anecdotal evidence has no bearing on the actual facts, and i would advise you keep your fairy tale to yourself when talking about the real world, and its real problems.
@K1l, No. He actually, genuinely, belives that the bible, of all things, is the be all end off for morality. Completely ignoring the parts where they commit genocide, endorse slavery, endorse rape, subjugate women, and advocate intolerance of other beliefs. As is typical of the religious. Smh.
@LaDarkProphet, you forget that Christians neither read or care about most of the Bible. It’s bible this bible that, but one things for sure, 99.9% of Christians don’t even know what the real Ten Commandments are XD
@NameyMcNameFace, that's more or less the gist of it. Unfortunately, nobody seems to want any of the laws that help the impoverished, as many of those laws conflict with what lobbyists want and sound scary to the average person who doesn't understand legal jargon.
@The Pun Shielder, Aye. Well said mate.
@The Pun Shielder, I like the way you said "real" ten commandments. It makes me think like there's a secret ten out there that only level 8 christians and up know about, lol
@LaDarkProphet, not sure what Bible you are reading, but the Bible never endorses rape. And saying they endorse slavery is also out of context, but not as blatantly wrong as saying it endorses rape. Also, most religions advocate for intolerance of other beliefs (since the goal is to promote yours as the one true religion), the difference between christianity and other religions is that it doesn’t advocate militancy towards other beliefs, in fact it encourages the opposite.
All that being said, I agree that the Bible being in schools is irrelevant to crime statistics, nor should it be used as some sort of “you don’t read the bible so you are a terrible person”. But also certain types of crime are influenced by religious factors (mostly terrorism or hate crimes), so thats not completely accurate.
@Marida Cruz, that’s a ridiculous statement. There are literally thousands of programs and laws aimed at “helping the poor”. It’s a cultural issue and cannot be solved by law.
@TheWhiteWolf, you can thank years of legal racism for this.
@Lysander99, XD good one lol. But I can pass down this sacred knowledge of becoming a better and more godlike person 😇
Don’t boil a baby goat in it’s mother’s milk.
10/10 more important than thou shall not kill.
@Richard Cypher, so is it better to have a good father or a bad father that wasnt there. Growing up without a father is not 100% causation, the overall environment and predisposition are.
@TheWhiteWolf, bingo, gun violence is typically a product of poverty not race. Humans get vicious when they have almost nothing to call thier own.
@The nOly One, Ah. Another typical ignorant fool, whos either to lazy to actually read his religious text or blatantly ignores it to make it more palatable. Either way, its dishonest at best and heinous at worse to lie. The bible does indeed endorse rape and slavery.
Judges 19:25-28, this nice gem were a rapist is obligated marry his victim Deuteronomy 22:29, Exodus 21: 7-8 is a two fer as it condones both rape and slavery, Isaiah 13:9–16 where it straight up tells people to kill infants then rape their mothers, Judges 19:25-28, Ephesians 6:5 and the list goes on and on.
You might be able to fool the uneducated, but not those who know. The next time you try to preach from your high horse, actually read the source material. Anyone who advocates for the bible are either stupid, malicious, gullible or misinformed. Which are you?
@Richard Cypher, How dare you use repeatedly proven facts to put forward a logical argument to the effect that a stable upbringing, with traditional parental role models, makes people more likely to grow up as responsible citizens! That’s gotta be racist or something....
@Lysander99, Thats because there are actually 2 "sets" of ten commandments as it were. But most Christians are religious because they were indoctrinated into it as children. Most have never actually read the damn source material. It disgusts me how anyone can believe in something they dont even understand. They have camps, for children, where they make them read the bible. Its a good thing most kids dont actually read it while they are their, because otherwise they would read about all the rape, murder, genocide and slavery their precious yaweh condones. Makes me sick to my stomach. And a lot of these ignorant fools say atheists are the ones without morals lol.
@LaDarkProphet, 1. My comment was only meant to be a joke.
2. The way you speak about the subject reveals your ignorance. You lack context, and rely on misinterpretation by yourself and others to make your points.
@Lysander99, Really now? And prey tell me, what exactly am i being ignorant about? What could i possibly be misinterpreting? Do tell 😈
@tmo0792, I do not understand the massive downvote count here. I think you miss the idea that poor people have always suffered from elevated crime rates because they often feel they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. But the correlation between the lack of religious based morals is real. With the decline of religion in the last century there is even less to keep the have nots from crime.
@LaDarkProphet, Judges 19:25-28 NEVER says it is ok to rape someone, it is a historical passage. Deuteronomy 22:29, yeah the entire point is that you shouldn’t be having sex with anyone you aren’t married to, read the whole passage to get context. The exodus passage is for laws about slaves, who usually were people who fell into debt and thus had to repay that debt through servitude. The Isaiah passage is someone telling the babylonians what will happen, again, not endorsing...
@LaDarkProphet, ... rape. Ephesians 6:5 this is telling slaves that they should serve with a good attitude, basically saying that no matter the circumstances, be a good person, once again not endorsing it. So no, I am not the uneducated one, and just cause you looked up on google some verses and thought you could look smart, shows how blatantly ignorant YOU are, read with context, or dont read at all.
@LaDarkProphet, this isn’t event to mention that you are mostly quoting the Old Testament, which is mostly jewish law and history, rather than christian teaching.
@big freedom, bingo.
There are PLENTY of poor/homeless people who get through life without robbing, killing, selling drugs, etc. life is what you make it, no matter what background you come from. Some people just choose to be a shjthead because they are attracted to that lifestyle of being some gangster
@The nOly One, Called it! Absolutely called it. You blantant apologists are to easy to predict. Did i not say that you would wave your hand and dismiss all of it? And what did you do? Wave your hand and dismiss all of it lololol. O that is rich mate, calling me the ignorant one when i can clearly see what is written. Its right there plain as day. For a book that is supposed to be the be all end all for morality it sure has a funny way of showing it. Its almost as if its a 2000 year old fairy tale that should have no meaning or relevance in todays society. But religious morons like you just love to praise and preach a book that condones rape, genocide, murder, slavery etc. Again. If this is supposed to be a book written, or endorsed, by an all powerful all knowing entity, then you would expect it to be full of good moral character. But its not. Its not even close. Think about it for a sec, i know its hard for you but do try. If there is a law for it right, bear with me now, that means..
@The nOly One, It was endorsed you fuking simpleton! How anyone can read a passage about dashing infsnts into rocks while heir grieving mothers are raped, and come out thinking the book with said passage as the epitome of morality is fuking brain dead. And btw the typical, "O those are just from the old testament" (as if thats supposed to excuse such barbarity) is just as fuking stupid. There are plenty of passages in the new testament that are just as heinous. Not that you would know. You would just dismiss them as parables or taken out of context etc etc. As if people are to stupid to read whats right in front of them. Smh. Its pathetic. The amount of mental gymnastics required to read a book full of rape, genocide, murder and come out the other side claiming moral superiority is baffling. I literally cannot understand people like you. How you can claim to have any morals at all smh. I mean guilt by association, but that should mean you think its ok to bash infants against rocks onyl
@LaDarkProphet, 1: I did not “dismiss” them, I told you why you were wrong about each one. 2: calling me a moron while providing no further proof to your point is actually just silly. 3: the bible is written in many different ways (history, law, praises, proverbs, prophecies, gospel, and letters) so no, not every part of it is going to be full of good “moral character” because many times lessons are taught through mistakes. The other thing you fail to realize is that “inclusion” does not mean “endorsement”. If someone includes african slavery or the holocaust in a history textbook, does that textbook endorse those things? I’m sorry that for some reason Christianity nauseates you so much but that doesn’t mean you have to lie about it.
@The nOly One, A texbook shows the aftermath and teaches about how wrong such barbaric actions were. You do not see a single correction or condemnation anywere in the bible. Even jesus said for slaves to obey their masters. 1 Peter. Thats not condemning it, is it boy? So yes. You did outright dismiss them entirely. And still have the audacity to claim the moral high ground. Smh. Its baffling. I would not, could not, even associate myself with anything even close to such barbarity. But you religious morons snuggle right on up in there while claiming its perfect. Smh. That does indeed disgust me. I get the same feeling when i read about the trans atlantic slave trade, or the Baltic Slave trade, or the holocaust, or the rape of nanking etc. But not you people. You people just nod your head when you read about yaweh sending bear to maul children and go, "Yep. This is moral." 2 kings 2: 23-24. Smh. Its laughable just how hypocritical you lot are.
@The nOly One, Whenever i see your religious parasites condemning the action of a dictator who is committing genocide, i have to fight the urge not to slap you for sheer stupidity. After all, what is a few hundred people vs the few million that yaweh killed during a flood? You accept that genocide. You think that genocide is acceptable, so why not all genocide? Why do you draw a line in the sand? See, i condemn all genocide. But according to you, their are certain cases where genocide is apparently a just and moral action in your eyes. Smh. Bunch of hypocrites the lot of you.
And to then turn around and claim im the immoral one? Yea, that gets old real quick. Even as a child i knew i could never accept or tolerate such barbarity. Makes me sick and nauseous just thinking about your hypocrisy. Im done for tonight. Im to angry and disgusted to repond right now anymore.
@LaDarkProphet, ok dude, I don’t know why you are being so incredibly hostile towards me, I was trying to have a civil debate, but apparently that is not going to happen here. I hope you have a good night, sleep well.
@LaDarkProphet, dude you’ve gone insane. .000001% take the Bible literally. It’s been proven that societies that have a firm moral compass have less crime and higher happiness index. You seem to be under the impression that anyone who has any faith in any god at all is 100% in favor of every single thing that any bible says. You’ve lost yourself in the same ideology that you despise. You use your hatred for religion AS your own religion.
@big freedom, Its a lot more then 0.1%. Why do you think so many religious people are against gays? Because its mentioned in their holy book. They use it as an excuse to be horrible disgusting people while simultaneously spouting how righteous and moral they are. That. Is. Hypocritical. By definition.
Im not insane. How typical to try and avoid my arguments by doubting my mental state. Im am angry yes. And yes i might be defensive and biased against religious folk. But its because of their hypocrisy. They sit their on their moral high ground and claim that i get to, and deserve, be punished for my lack of faith while i wouldnt wish a single person be harmed in any way. That pisses me off.
@LaDarkProphet, mr pot, have you been introduced to me kettle?
@big freedom, How is it a pot and kettle situation? I wouldnt want a single person to be harmed in anyway and believe all people have a right to be happy. I would never do something as heinous as judge someone for who they love. I wouldn't be ok with the knowledge that someone, anyone, is suffering. I would do everything in my power to help someone in need. And yet, most religious people wouldnt dream of helping someone they considered beneath them. Most of them are 100% ok with the idea of innocent people being tortured. What sane person wouldnt have issues with that? But because its in their holy book it gets a pass? The fuk? No. You can take your hypoctical morals and fuk off.
@The nOly One, Im being hostile because you said something stupid. And it pisses me off when you guys pat yourselfs on the back acting like your these perfect beings better then everyone else, when it is often the case that you people use your holy book to be just a viscous and cruel as the people you claim are beneath you. That is hypocritical by definition.
@Hellabaloo, No not malicious. I do not wish harm against anyone, regardless of how stupid i think their ideas and beliefs are. Which is more then what most of them can claim. So not malicious, by definition. Definitely biased though.
@LaDarkProphet, I was referring to myself
@TheWhiteWolf, there’s more than DOUBLE the number of poor whites as compared to poor blacks. Do the math. 8.7% of whites versus 21.2% of blacks. But the poor white neighborhoods aren’t riddled with bullet holes and gangs. It’s a culture problem, not a money problem.
@LaDarkProphet, so with ~22,000,000 impoverished whites and only ~10,000,000 impoverished blacks........ according to the stats pointed out above ‘by the census bureau’......why are poor black neighborhoods 10-times more dangerous than poor white ones?
@JDtennis, That has to do with culture, access to proper education, weather or not a family has single or two parent homes, and any other number of factors. Even if i were to believe that its a actual 10% increase, the fact still remains that poverty is the primary factor in most cases. Low income families are at drastically higher risk for criminal activity regardless of race, ethnicity or creed. Thats just a fact.
@LaDarkProphet, but you vehemently judge someone because of their belief in the Bible or god or whatever. That’s very much a pot/kettle situation. I’m not religious at all and I definitely don’t want to be preached at by anyone. But I know many people who are religious, go to church, donate time and money to charities and never judge someone based on any of the above criteria. I’d say they’re probably in the majority. A few outspoken àssholes and you condemn the entire group. Just as bad as some zealot hating the Muslims next door or the gay kid across the street.
@big freedom, On the contrary. I dont judge the entire population. Just the ones who, like the ones above, spout their supposed superiority. Those are the ones i take issue with. If your willing to puff out your chest and claim how much better you are because of some 2000 year old fairy tale, then you had best be ready to defend those beliefs when they come under scrutiny. No one likes hypocrites. Yes i admit, i could be more polite or say my opinions with more tact. Sure. But ive tried that approach and it gets nowhere. So i figure might as well be as blunt and honest as possible. Im not here to win a popularity contest. Im here to do what everyone else is doing. Explain my thoughts and opinions, regardless of what other people think. If they hadnt brought up the stupid notion that the bible being taken out of schools was a bad thing, this whole mess could have been avoided. I didnt start this conversation, but im damn sure not going to back down from it.
@LaDarkProphet, “most religious people wouldn’t dream of helping others. Most religious people are ok with torturing innocent people” “I can take my hypocritical morals and fûck off”
You’re either trolling, or really have no idea. Either way, you’re terrible at trying to influence and persuade. G’day
@big freedom, That is true. Most, not all, WOULDNT help others. And MOST, not all, do believe in some form of hell. That is, to them, a literal eternal torture. And the most common factor for entering said ETERNAL TORTURE is a lack of faith. That is by far the most common held belief of all Abrahamic faiths. Thats just a fact.
Im sorry but if you turly believe, and are ok with, people being TORTURED FOR ALL TIME, just because they believe differently then you, then you are not a moral person. You are not a good person. Your a hypocrite. You cannot advocate for morals when your 100% ok with eternal torture. Im sorry you cant seem to peice that together. Im sorry your to blind and arrogant to go, O yea being against eternal torture is probably a good thing. O yea, pointing out how their core beliefs, which advocate for torture, are definitely no grounds for moral superiority is probably not a bad thing. Nope. You just see, bad man against religious people mer.
@big freedom, Its not rocket science. I don't claim to be a good person. Im actually an ashole. And i am biased against all religion. But i dont think mearly pointing out people's hypocrisy is a bad thing. I don't think pointing out that eternal torture is wrong, is such a bad thing. I don't think pointing out the flaws in someone's ideas or beliefs is wrong. Its how we learn, and adapt, and think. Could i be more tactful? More eloquent? More articulate? Sure. But why should i when i post the literal verses, straight from the bible, that prove my point, only to have it waved off and dismissed? At that point there is no ryme or reason to be polite and tactful. No. Simple blunt honesty is the best way to go. Again. Sorry your to blind to see how wrong those beliefs are. How easy it makes for people to excuse their hatred and bigotry. By pointing out how wrong and flawed the source material is, maybe then we can show how wrong the belief is.
@big freedom, But thats to much to ask for of course. Humans are painfully stupid creatures, bound to commit the same mistakes and the same atrocities over and over again. People can't seem to look around objectively and see how horrible and atrocious some ideas and beliefs are. Dont get me wrong. I dont want those ideas censored. But i dont think its right to shut off all discussion, cristsim and opposition of said ideas just because those ideas and beliefs are old and held by a lot of people. But thats fine. Like i said before, im not here to win a beauty contest. Yall can downvote me, call me names, twist my words and meanings around. You can ban me, block me, censor me all you like. Im still going to advocate that maybe its time to put such archaic and barbaric religion behind us in the past where is belongs, and focus more on the future instead.
@LaDarkProphet, there are parts of your comments that i completely agree with: we should absolutely question morals and have discussions. Humans are stupid and make same mistakes. We should absolutely have the discussion and not silence people.
I disagree with all or most religious people wouldn’t help or are ok with torture. Believing something exists =\= advocation.
Open your mind a little bit. Don’t be quite so ideological, it blocks you from being rational
@big freedom, If you believe that something exists and do nothing to try and change it then, yea your basically advocating for it. At the very least if you dont voice how you dont like or are even against said idea then yes you are, at the very least, complacent. Smh. Russian gulags were often protested and advocated against. Why dont Christians speak out why hell is unfit for any living thing and could not be the work of a all loving deity??? Because they are complacent and all for it. They often times advocate for people to go to hell! I know ive been told lots of time that i deserve to go to hell because of my lack of faith. Its like in their mind eternal torture is something deserved. And that is a immoral and heinous belief.
@LaDarkProphet, you’re first sentence not only is wrong, but it’s idiotic. Here’s an idea, you’re not important in the world, at all. Not only is it not your job to “change people” (again pot/kettle with you an religious people) but unless you believe you’re a Christ like figure, it’s not possible to change people. Your anti- religion is in itself a religion. You’re a hypocrite
@big freedom, i think you need to read what i wrote again. It seems your struggling with the basic English i wrote there. The only idiotic statement was the one i just read. Yours. Is English not your native language? Cause that is the only thing i can come up with why you would write such a abysmally stupid statement.
@LaDarkProphet, “if you believe that something exists and do nothing to try to change it you’re basically advocating for it” is a moronic statement. ESPECIALLY if you’re talking about a belief in God and Heaven and Hell. It’s beyond idiotic. It’s too stupid to even begin to dissect. I’m sorry pointing this out to you makes you think that I don’t comprehend English, which is also idiotic. By moron. I’m no longer trying to debate with dolts.
@TheWhiteWolf, it’s the crimes that cause the poverty. Not the other way around.
@LaDarkProphet, ever read the Bible though? The point is God is showing how wrong that stuff is. It’s a story. This horrible thing happened and they were punished. Try reading it for once
@big freedom, I know we’ve had our differences, but your last 2 replies are fire. 😎
@Child Slapper, So when Yaweh himself comanded that the Israelites commit genocide it was to show that genocide was wrong? Really? Really? Are... are you for real? And when Yahweh commanded that infants be bashed against rocks only to have the grieving mothers raped, it was to show that killing infants and then raping the grieving mothers was wrong? Are you mentally handicapped? It would appear that the only person who needs to learn how to read is you my intellectually dishonest friend.
@LaDarkProphet, God commanded his people to go and wipe out nations. Such is war. Sorry your feelings are hurt. Real men do what have to be done, and the weak will perish. God says “do not murder” but that is different then killing in times of war. Just like in modern times.
God also commands to wipe all out, don’t take any women, and definitely don’t rape. Try reading again because every instance of rape in the Bible is punished.
By the way you respond, we could all tell that you’re clearly in denial and beyond your wits. The fact that you have to add an offensive label to everyone you talk to is proof of weakness and inner turmoil. Have a nice day.
@Child Slapper, Ah so guess that means war crimes dont exist then. Thats what your telling me. After all the soilders in ww2 were just following orders. Strong survive and the weak perish. Thats what you said. Thats absolutely horrid. Guess that proves that religious cretins like you have no morals what so ever. What an absolutely disgusting statement. War is one thing, but innocent civilians should not be targeted regardless of what you or your pathetic excuse for a god thinks. And for your information boy, i posted quote a few verses from the bible where Yaweh specifically commanded that women be raped. Just because your apparently to fuking stupid to know how to read does not mean its painfully obvious to anyone else. You have proven my point far better then anyone else. Your a disgusting excuse for a human being and should be fuking ashamed of yourself. Advocating genocide as morally just? Are you fuking kidding? And people wonder why humans are leaving religion on mass.
@Child Slapper, Leave it to a religious moron to advocate for war crimes and genocide. You people are capable of any atrocity so ling as you justify it with religion. Lol its no wonder your kind has been manipulated and used throughout time. Because you lack even a shred of human decency or capability to think logically. You disgust me beyond measure. I sincerely hope you never procreate boy. Because you might continue to contaminate humanity with your boundless stupidity, and never ending immorality.
@LaDarkProphet, you might need to take a chill pill. Anger and insults don’t help get your point across. Grammar mistakes and cursing only show lack of intelligence and patience. Those are key in a discussion. It’s clear you’re not looking to have a discussion, but just trying to lash out and attack people. It’s easy to do on the internet, because in real life you’re a coward.
@Child Slapper, The only coward here is you boy. Advocating for genocide while behind a screen is one thing. Go to a peace conference or better yet, a holocaust museum or survivor and tell them that. Tell them what you just told me. That genocide is moral in times of war. That only the strong should survive. Tell them that to their face. You wont of course. Because you are the coward boy. You have all these delusions in your head, and the only time you feel brave enough to air them out is online. Unlike you however, i am the same regardless if im online or offline. I dont change and pretend to be something im not. What you see is what you get. It doesnt make me very popular but it does make me honest. Which is more then can be said for most of you two faced religious cretins. All fake smiles and righteous superiority. Its enough to make a man sick. How you all can live with the hypocrisy is beyond me. How you can say one thing and mean anyother is just to much work for my taste.
@Child Slapper, But i digress. Its painfully obvious your an idiot. You've never read the bible, that much is clear, and your clear lack of morals means your just a delusion child who needs to grow up some more before he can be taken seriously. You should think before you speak boy. I know its hard for you religious morons to know how to do that but i urge you to at least try. Take a deep breath and think. Then speak. Again, i doubt you have the capability to do that but heres hoping.
I think the part everybody missed about the graphic is the fact that if you remove the black shooters, we, as a right to arm country have fewer gun deaths than several gun restricted countries. It's also interesting that the gun restricted countries (with smaller populations) still have pretty high gun deaths comparatively
@MrLenny, too bad the statistics being presented don’t actually show total gun deaths, otherwise you’re observation would be correct...
@A Blunt Object, But total gun deaths doesn’t matter. Why does the method of suicide matter?
@Commandshark, total deaths was the contention that was made, and the US doesn’t have fewer deaths even removing a segment of the population.
The better question is why does the race of the person being murdered matter in this argument?
@MrLenny, You’ve made a pretty big logical blunder here. What the graph says is that if you remove a massive portion of America’s low socioeconomic population then your gun deaths starts to resemble other countries’. But low socioeconomic areas are where a majority of gun deaths occur in every country, so if every country on this chart got to disregard the low socioeconomic gun deaths like you’ve chosen to their numbers would drop way below yours.
@Fuggles, I don't think so, the other countries listed have MUCH smaller black/Hispanic populations per total I think I saw within a decade that the black population will outnumber white in the US...
@MrLenny, you’re mistake is that you’re still focusing on race. What I’m saying is that a disproportionately large portion of America’s low socioeconomic people are black or Hispanic, so by discounting these people you are ignoring the economic group which accounts for a large majority of gun deaths. You are effectively ignoring a large portion of America’s leading gun death causing economic group but not ignoring that group for other countries
@Fuggles, you’re mistake is that you don’t acknowledge that there are cultural differences between the races. There are more poor white people than black or Hispanics. But the murder rate in white communities is still lower. There are factors that affect this to be sure, but I’m curious as to why you want to justify murder as being ok just because they’re from a poor neighborhood?
@BigJohnson86, I’m sorry, where has anybody tried to justify murder? Nobody here is saying that murder is ok if your poor, we’re saying that crime, and by extension murder, is more common in low socioeconomic areas. Which is true.
@Fuggles, which in no way excuses it. You excuse the fact by contending that the black and Hispanic populations skew the number forgetting that there are more white people living in poverty. You’re unwillingness to face the cultural differences reads as excusing the behavior due to circumstance.
@BigJohnson86, saying that crime happens more in low income areas is by no means the same as excusing crime. In fact there’s no real way to interpret what I said as such. What I said was that the poverty rates per capita in black and Hispanic people is way higher than for whites, and people in poverty commit more crime than those who aren’t, and that is clearly reflected in crime rates.
Probably because most black populations live in oppressive areas with high poverty and cultures of crime, not because they just feel like killing things. Also, so much data is skewed in one direction that it doesn't tell the full story. Think critically everyone!
@I Hid Your Remote, you should tell Christopher Lane that!
@I Hid Your Remote, yeah statistics above are cause by years of oppression of minorities, people never add that to the graph.
@Implicit88, yeah it’s all about oppression and not about people taking responsibly for their lives and actions.
@Implicit88, so does it make it more acceptable to kill someone? The stat is definitely pushing an agenda but that doesn’t make killing more acceptable. If there’s no threat to your life then killing is still wrong.
The graph itself shows oppression because the highest murder rates are universally impoverished people. It doesn’t make it ok tho.
@Raki Zaki, i never said people dont take responsibility, but predisposition is a big thing. 160 years ago slavery was ended 1954 about 60 years ago. And gentrification exists today and targets minorities. Literally African Americans have had a tough 160 years to build wealth while whites have had 400. Do not mistake paper opportunity with actual opportunity. Blacks and other minorities can be denied loans simply because they are of a particular ethnicity or loans because the house they want to purchase is in a particular neighborhood. People being oppressed may try to find another way around, right or wrong (fight or flight instinct).
@BigJohnson86, yeah but i believe the stats above are for victims not perpetrators. Killing is not right, of course, from a christian perspective any killing is wrong even to defend your own life, or to save that of another.
@Implicit88, Thats illegal. Plain and simple. If a individual feels, which they can prove, they are being denied because of their skin color then they have a case. It would be a lawyer's wet dream. A civil rights case in todays climate? Would be a win win situation. Add to that how easy it for "minorities" to get into colleges and trade schools, and to have access to company run jobs that have racial quotas to feel and the chances to get out of poverty continue to increase. What your saying isnt wrong persay but it is definitely skewed. We have come a long way and we should focus on egalitarian processes and programs and not skew them one way or another. Thats just imo though.
@Implicit88, Really? Cause didnt Yaweh kill several million people during the flood? Didnt jesus say, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me." Mathew 10: 34-38. And didnt Yaweh command that his followers kill the Cannanites down to the last man, women, and child? Even killing the animals? So it would seem to me it would be very Christian like to kill your enemies, especially in defense.
@Implicit88, So you can take your hypocritical bs and shove it mate. Your Christians always acting all superior. Pretending to be perfect when most of you lot are just as disgusting and heinous as the common criminal. Justifying your hatred of gays, and well anyone who doesn't believe really, because your holy book told you so. Its aggravating. Get the fuk off your moral high ground. It looks really, really fuking shaky. Smh. My guess is you probably have never even read the bible. Typical. Best you didnt even know there are two ten commandments did ya? The actual ten commandments that moses makes and brings down have no say about murder. But then your to stupid to have paid attention to that fact.
@LaDarkProphet, so much hate wow. If you really think its illegal to discriminate you are wrong. I was being sarcastic about christians. How the govt and companies discriminate now is use other excuses
@Implicit88, you are literally just making shît up. Nothing that you’ve said makes any sense at all. In fact we are all now stupider for having heard it.
@big freedom, look up gentrification and redlining and the drug war. You will see that those were all ways the govt and companies could discriminate towards minorities.
@Implicit88, and yet, you, a liberal, believe that more government is the way to solve the problem of government discrimination... lol
@big freedom, govt isnt good or back. Its the people behind it, running it that are good or bad. Thats like saying a manager is bad, no it depends on the manager, the role itself is not bad or good. If you think im wrong tell me one way govt is bad.
@Implicit88, you can use semantics all you want. Power corrupts, absolute power... you know how it goes.
Bad gvmt: Gerrymandering, being bought by corporate interests, passing laws that favor the powerful and spite the people, regulations that stifle competition, picking winners and losers, war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terror, domestic spying, no knock raids and killing kids or dogs, taxing middle class and Giving the $ to their cronies (who literally write the tax laws) convincing the people to continue to fight over R vs D, while both parties rob us blind, $21T in debt that our kids will have to pay for at enormous cost, deficit spending, not protecting individual liberties. I could keep going all day. If you ever vote for the government to solve your problems you’re contributing to every instance I posted above. But it’s all for your safety, of course.
@big freedom, i agree the current government has been bad, but as a society we need a government. Electing people that will actually change the laws and work for the working class is where it starts. Get any r or d that accepts any corporate money out and that will be a great start. Add rank choice voting. End all foreign wars, tax the rich to get us out of this deficit since they are the ones that got us into it. Power doesn’t always corrupt, the problem is usually evil people seek power more than good people. The reason why this wont be fixed anytime soon is because you have a lot of people that are brainwashed through corporate media. Usually local elections are more for the people since what they do is usually more clear, we need to hold senate, president, House, and the courts to that same standard.
@big freedom, i think we probably agree on a lot of things, where we probably differ is the approach to solve them. Also, you called me a liberal, i will say i am a registered democrat, however, the only reason i am is because i wanted to vote for someone last election and i had to register to do so. However, i am truly an independent and think almost 100% of all democrats and republicans in congress and the president and supreme court are trash.
@Implicit88, I’ve never once advocated for no government. I always advocate for less government because the nature of people is to give more power to an authority and take less responsibility for themselves. People want a king, or god, or whatever, to tell them what to do or not to do.
You think that “electing people that will actually change the laws” will make a difference? The R’s and D’s have an actual monopoly and are not willing to give any of that power up. I’m actually impressed with how much Trump doesn’t give an F whether his choices makes Rs happy or not.
Tax the rich to get us out of debt? Lmfao. Get us out of a home by digging a deeper hole?
I can’t continue to debate with someone who is so brainwashed by the media. Tax the rich to get us out of debt proves that you are the brainwashed.
@big freedom, trump has not done anything for the people. What he is doing in dismantling protections for people. Taxing the rich will not get us into a deeper hole the tax cuts have actually shown the deficit increase under trump (he said it would decrease) so now he wants to cut medicare/aid + social security
Taking statistics out of context and making inferences off of them doesn’t qualify as bravery. Just saying.
@Fuggles, yeah. Facts arnt brave.
The US also rates 104th in homocide overall when we have one of the largest populations so what’s happening is other countries who have less guns are just being more creative with their murder. Redundant to say but, guns don’t kill people. People kill people and they’ll find a way to do it one way or the other.
The saying guns don’t kill people, people kill people should be a rallying point for defending gun rights *(for folks on the left, but silly of a sentence without that addition). If you’re ok with being sad, go to the website since parkland, and scroll through randomly clicking on names. You’ll find more gang and mental health deaths than any other cause. Guns don’t cause the problems that we see, they just help us see it in a painful way.
All joking aside. I get what is insinuated by this, but I honestly dont know what to think if this information.
@ThePandaPool , that all Americans are not going each other and shooting everyone up. And that its only a small minority of people doing the killing.
And that joke about white people shooting up schools accounts for most of the murder is factually wrong.
@NameyMcNameFace, I don’t want to get into a debate about gun control, but nobody is saying that white people shootiny up schools accounts for most of the murders. That is the main talking point because that’s the biggest tragedy. The rest of gun violence is in gang crime or individual homicides. Thing is, gang violence and homicide will continue regardless of the existence of guns. However, the U.S is the only first world country that has these large, mass killings far more often than any other nation, and the obvious difference is accessibility to guns.
Whether or not you think stricter gun laws would help or not doesnt matter, and Im not saying that anything you’ve said is wrong, it’s just not arguing against the main point gun control advocates are making.
@K1l, gun laws are pretty strict regardless here in the USA. It’s not like everyone jokes about how you can just go into Walmart and walk out with a gun.
@K1l, they are though. They look at at-15s saying they can “do the most damage” when in reality baseball bats kill more than assault rifles. And pistols do way way more killing, yet they don’t want to take that away.
@NameyMcNameFace, You ignored my point again. The main call for gun control comes from mass murders, like Vegas, Orlando Parkland etc. They say that they do the “most damage”, in the context of number of people it can be used to murder in a short period of time by an individual.
Nobody is calling for knife, or bat or pistol or whatever control because we don’t have several instances a year where groups of 15+ kids are killed with them in schools. The concern isnt crime rate or individual homicides, it’s mass murder attacks
@ThePandaPool , honestly, you have to look at this information as incomplete, as it only takes into account homicides not total gun deaths (accidental, suicide, etc.). If you include total deaths the numbers per capita become quite even based on race. The OP was trying to cherrypick statistics to fit a narrative...
@A Blunt Object, checked. Even taking into effect the highest possible numbers from suicide and accidents, it still doesnt come close.
@ThePandaPool , its basically a dumb graph, you would have to correlate perpetrators to this by ethnicity as well, also this should include injuries. Some people just cant think.
@ThePandaPool , not sure where you’re getting your stats, but 21.8 versus 16.5 is what the CDC is saying. That’s pretty close considering the disparity in the homicide rate, which, if we want to really discuss, just tells us the race of the person being killed...
@K1l, it’s not far more often. Yet we (white people) are far less likely to kill someone than someone from Australia or Canada. As shown by the meme. White people areless likely to be murderers with guns in America than in Canada. Or any of the other countries.
@K1l, you are missing my point. White people with AR-15s are getting the short end of the straw when in realty black people with pistols are the and should be the real concern. Yet not a word from any major news outlet when something like that happens.
@NameyMcNameFace, No, you’re still missing the point. The gun issue that gun control advocates are focusing on is the terrorism attacks, with guns like ar-15s or similar ones. And these terrorism attacks in the U.S are almost exclusively white people, which is where that narrative comes from.
The black gun violence rate isnt focused on because it’s not an issue of guns, in an issue of crime and poverty. With or without guns, the crime and homicide rates wouldnt change all that much, so this issue should be approached with economic solutions for these areas.
Im not sure how much clearly I have to make it, but gun control advocates are advocating for better regulation of weapons similar to AR-15s, that have been used to kill groups of school children and entire crowds of people.
Since apparently my other comments arent clear enough Ill repeat myself again. Gun control advocation comes from the intent to prevent mass shootings and terror attacks, not individual crimes or homicides.
@K1l, you are missing the point. White people with guns kill less people than other countries. Keep the AR-15, you are safer with it.
@NameyMcNameFace, Good god.
In overall numbers, yes, pistols and similar guns are used way more in crimes and murders than the larger firearms. But the point is that AR-15s and similar weapons are used in mass shooting terrosit attacks.
Yes, banning AR-15s and the likes wouldnt effect the OVERALL gun violence. Nobody is saying it will. However, the intent is to prevent mass murders that use AR-15s and similar weapons. Not overall murder. Not overall murder. But to help with the mass murder attacks statistics that the U.S blows away every other first world country in.
@K1l, thought there was a huge increase in terror attacks in Europe but that’s beside the point. You are also missing a key factor, we are way way bigger than most other first word countries, and not only that but guns have been used sto save more lives than end them. So banning any guns is not only unconstitutional but dangerous for the well being of the population.
Again if someone wants to shoot up a school, they are going to shoot up a school. If they want to use a AR-15, they will use a AR-15. The fact of it being ban means nothing. If criminals listened to laws then we should ban heroin and crack too. Oh wait.
@K1l, also hardcore lefties want all guns banned. Not just at-15. And once they see not drop in crime rate they will say the law is not dropping and start going after the other guns as well
@K1l, blows away every first world country. Like New Zealand? Which already has tougher gun laws then the us.
I’m gonna need popcorn to read these comments
If anyone wants the exact numbers and stats you'll have to let me know and I can find it later, but most violent crime is black on black, so violent crime is rarely a racist thing. 🤷♂️
@Ted Mosby is a jerk, so why were there so many story’s about cops killing black people?
It’s almost like they started a mini race war before the 2016 election and onced that passed they stopped caring about it. Especially conserdering the average number of black people killed by police went down from the previous 5 year span than the 5 years before
@NameyMcNameFace, what's your source? I wanna look at these stats
But it’s always white dudes that do mass shootings
@shmoblow, not always
It's still a gun problem tho?
@hollow114, Yeah I dont get what this is saying. Do guns not count if black people own them?
@hollow114, it’s not a gun problem. It’s a crime problem. Stoping law abiding white (no tryjng to be racist just going off meme) people from owning guns becasue a small minority are doing killing is stupid.
Black people were forced to stay stagnant culturally, and so they're behind a bit in some regards, and their culture largely endorsing poor decision making like in hip hop. I'm not saying rap is bad, it's just not evolving morally fast enough to fix these issues. Idk how to fix that, but it's not by ignoring that they exist.
Man I don't even know. Hmm
As a young blackmn, I really have to say I'm enjoying Rising of a Shield Hero
Anyone who enjoys jokes about american gun culture, there was a video from the daily show about us gun laws vs swiss gun laws:
I think theres also a second part to it.