I never got this, business owners are allowed to decide who they can serve. Wouldn't it be easier to just go to a different shop and not buy his cakes anymore than to sue him (and most likely lose due to freedom of religion)?
@ptitty1231, it's not even about WHO to serve, it's WHAT. IIRC He offered the gay couple their choice of anything EXCEPT a wedding cake.
@ptitty1231, it's not even about the cake. It's about trying to shut him down not only because he doesn't agree with them (the trans) but also to make an example of him so that others with religious convictions will be forced to give them up.
@ptitty1231, the whole reason they went to him was because they knew he wouldn't and wanted a easy buck
@ptitty1231, 🚫Stop! You're making too much sense, and that ain't common around these here parts🤔
@ptitty1231, the issue is where can the line be drawn, should businesses be able to say they don't serve blacks?
@HSA, yes and then in this modern day united states everyone stops patroning the racist and he has no one to blame, but himself.
If you force him with government and laws to serve black people he doesn't learn his lesson because he can blame government and everyone else for threatening him.
What percentage of people do you know that would want to patron racist uncle teds cheesecake factory?
@Captain Swordsman, No it was that they could buy any of the cakes in stock but he refused to make a custom cake specifically for them. They insisted and decided suing him was the best course of action(it wasn’t).
@ptitty1231, I said something very similar to what you said on a different pic and got downvoted to hell. Glad it didn't happen to you, being right and all.
I'm not a business owner, but I have been a manager at quite a few different places, and refused people a lot. Mainly because they were being total dicks to my employees.
I used to be a manager for Petco, and I always left the door to my office propped open at night. I heard a guy screaming at one of the cashiers about a return. I wound up giving it to him because his son came and apologized for him. The next day the guy called and apologized to her
@ptitty1231, another time I was a manager at a car wash, and was making my rounds to see a guy yelling in an employee's face, calling him a "fvcking retard". I tore up his ticket and told him to get off my lot or I would call the police.
@ptitty1231, I’m against businesses being allowed to discriminate against people mainly because I’ve lived in small towns before where they only have one grocery store and I can’t imagine how big of a pain in the ass it would be to have to drive an hour to the next town to buy a jug of milk because the only grocery store in town was discriminating against me. Sometimes we can’t just move on to the next store because there isn’t a next store to go to.
@Fuggles, yeah but all these cities that this has happened in have been big ones. One's where the were plenty of extra option
@tmo0792, yeah because lawsuits and news articles are much more frequent in big cities, but just because you aren’t hearing about the cases of people whose lives are severely negatively impacted due to discrimination in smaller communities doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
@Fuggles, please tell me one time where its happen to someone who didnt have access to something else. You cant tell me they arent doing it just to be a**holes.
@tmo0792, how are they the assholes? If I walk into a store and ask for a coffee and the person behind the counter tells me to get out because they dislike white people, you’re damn right I would consider suing. Discrimination shouldn’t be allowed, and it’s weird to me that so many Americans seem to support it.
@Fuggles, that's completely different. If there were 2 separate bakerys in town and one of them didnt feel right because they didnt want to make a cake for a couple that goes against their religious beliefs and did it nicely (especially considering transgenderism is literally complete insanity) and you choose to purposely go there knowing this information instead of going elsewhere. Then turn around and sue them then that's being an ass hole. Race has nothing to do with this and that comparison is completely asinine. Race is your humanity being transgender is an actual mental issue and has nothing to do with your humanity.
@tmo0792, wait, so you’re saying that you’re allowed to discriminate against people for having mental illnesses? That’s pretty messed up.
@Fuggles, you obviously missed the point. Transgenderism isnt a mental illness. It's just phase that people want to do to be an attention grabber. Being transgender is just being an idiot. I would never compare some bs like transgenderism to someone who is struggling with depression or anxiety
@Fuggles, I said a mental issue not a mental illness. If you cant understand basic human anatomy and biology then you need to go back to school.
@tmo0792, sorry, I thought when you said that transgenderism is an actual mental issue you meant a mental disorder.
Ok what are your views on gay rights? Should gay people be allowed to be turned away for no reason just because a religious person doesn’t like them? Oh, and should racist religious people such as KKK members be allowed to turn away non Caucasian’s because race IS a part of their religion? Should Jewish people be turned away at the door for religious reasons? What about christians? If somebody really wants to, they can discriminate against pretty much any race, religion, or lifestyle they want by saying it goes against their religion.
@Fuggles, I personally dont agree with homosexuality. Religous beliefs aside it's completely digressive. The same people who believe in evolution also are activists for homosexuality. Which is completely hypocritical. How can you believe in an evolving when homosexuality is completely the opposite. You cant evolve if you cant reproduce. That's simple facts. Survival of the fittest right? Theres a huge difference in turning away someone who is gay vs someone who is black. Again that is someone's humanity. If I turn someone away because they are gay it doesnt hurt anyone. The KKK would literally kill people. Its harming others and de humanizing them. Turning them away because they are gay or transgender doesnt do anything but say I dont agree with what you're doing.
@tmo0792, there’s actually no difference between turning away gay people and black people as in both cases those people are born that way and have no control over it.
So what’s your opinion about religion? Should you be able to be expelled from a business because you’re a Christian?
@Fuggles, first of all you are not born gay. There is literally no scientific evidence supporting this. As matter of fact on the contrary there is evidence that supports that you aren't. Go look at the study that was done on twins where one was gay and the other not. Basically right down to the DNA if one identical twin were gay then the other would be as well. Also if you want to turn me away because I'm a Christian well I would just go elsewhere. It's already happening around the world. Christian's are the most discriminated against religion worldwide already. I would never sue anyone I would just go elsewhere. Problem solved again because I'm not an asshole
@tmo0792, so what you’re saying is people choose to be gay? Are you crazy? Who the hell would choose to be gay? Gay people have been tortured, killed, arrested, subjected to terrible “cures”, and socially rejected for being gay for centuries. There is no way that they would choose that life. As well, how do you know that both twins weren’t born gay and one chose to be straight?
@Fuggles, so you can choose to be straight but not choose to be gay? You literally make no sense. Also maybe homosexuality is just like transgenderism? Ever thought of that? People choose to do stupid crap all of the time. It's been going on since the beginning of time. If you dont believe that you're in denial my friend
@tmo0792, I’d also say that most gay people don’t consciously choose to be gay. These things are complicated but I believe many are “deceived” (for lack of a better term) about their sexuality.
If I told you the real reason you or the other guy wouldnt believe me. People struggle with sin whether it be homosexuality, lying, stealing. From a biblical stand point that's the struggle of the entire human race. They may struggle with that particular one than someone else who struggles with drugs or lying. People dont want to hear that but it's the truth. I struggle with different things myself. Noone is perfect. Of course noone wants to be told they are wrong or doing something they shouldnt. However truth isnt relative. These things are set in stone. There are two genders. Breaking the law is wrong. Being gay is not right. Like I said in another comment I find it funny that the same people who believe In evolution believe in homosexuality. Its completely contradictory. Its regressive. Completely hypocritical
@tmo0792, i completely agree
@csortof , I would actually also like to point out that another study was done and almost 75% of "gay people" end up being straight or something like that. Also most of the gay people in my life were either hurt by the opposite sex so they "go the other" or either they cant find a man or woman so they decide to try and go for the same sex.
@csortof , I didnt really get to point this out but I also find the people that support transgenderism and homosexuality, advocates for wanting to make Islam okay and tolerable when muslims literally kill them and also still own millions of African Slaves
@Fuggles, this specific baker was know to refuse other cakes like a Halloween cake. In this case, the person has done this before. The well known gender transition celebrating cake and a cake celebrating Satan’s birthday (which depicted satan liking a large black dildo). That’s why it is apparent this is a deliberate lawsuit seeker. The baker didn’t arbitrarily decide to refuse lgbt-related themes one day. He won’t refuse to serve a lgbt person/couple, he just refuses, as he put it, to use his God-given gifts (his artistry of cake design) for themes that are in conflict with his faith. No one talks about the “discrimination” lawsuit in Canada where a trans woman is suing a spa run by a Muslim family for refusing to do a full Brazilian body wax (includes the nether regions). On the day in question, there was only a female employee in and she refused to do it because she will not touch a man that is unrelated to her because of her faith. Why isn’t it discussed as well?
@Fuggles, the ignorance you’re combatting here is truly staggering. Educate and move forward, some folks are just stuck in their paradigm...
@ptitty1231, I don't think business owners can choose to pick which customers they want to serve without an actual reason hurting the business but they can choose to refuse to make a product they don't want to make.
@Fuggles, I'm truly appalled by this thread. Thank you for being the voice of reason. Choosing to discriminate for ANY reason should be a crime, and if your God doesn't teach tolerance, forgiveness, and acceptance then you need a new God. Religion has become a reason to excuse almost any atrocity and then they turn around and claim to preach peace, love, and harmony. It's not a crime to be different and it certainly isn't a reason to be discriminated against.
@ptitty1231, Yes, but that wouldnt cause a scene.
@ptitty1231, but then you couldn't be on the news. If someone refused me service I would just go somewhere else and say screw that guy.
@tmo0792, you're wrong about transgenderism, but I'll respect your belief.
@Microsoft, you're appalled by logic, basic understanding of science, and reason? Um okay
@Proactive Citizenry , what part about transgenderism? It's exactly what I said. You are biologically a boy a girl there is no in between. Its basic science.
@ptitty1231, both sides is confusing I'm a Christian but I also own a business and wouldn't turn anyone away cause I got bills but I also believe standing by what you believe in (to an extent) the other side of it yeah why not just go somewhere else like what?
@ptitty1231, you open a business you don’t get to discriminate also where in the bible does it say hate transgendered people
@Not him again, sorry to tell you this but that is in no way the same thing there’s a difference between refusing service to an asshole and being the asshole that refuses to serve someone for worthless reasons
@tmo0792, A few notes. It’s disingenuous to call forth the support of science when looking at things from “a biblical point of view.” Furthermore, evolution and homosexuality do not conflict with each other. It is actually thought that homosexuality is an evolved group trait of a species which originally served to support the upbringing of other offspring. They would not be “parents” and would serve to guard the vulnerable as an extra bulwark along with the parents. Also, your “studies” seem cherry-picked to support a very specific agenda, which doesn’t surprise me because you make it very apparent you don’t support homosexuality whatsoever. It’s incredible to me that people are so quick to believe your intrepid claims when its clear that these issues are highly contestable. For you to say “its the truth” is just blatantly lying. The facts are that you and I don’t understand the mechanisms towards how people become homosexuals, but I guarantee the bible is not the right tool to use.
@eleven, sure there is. You dont choose to be gay or black or whatever, but you definitely choose how you act, and deserve to get treated accordingly
@tmo0792, you are one of the boggest idiots I have ever seen. I’m gay and you seriously think I could have choosen to be this way because I want fvcking attention. I would give anything to be straight because it is so much harder to live life as someone who is gay becauss of people like you who do not respect what we are. I also do not project my sexuality as something for people to pay attention to me, in fact i kept it hidden for years and pretended to be straight because I was in fear of the people that I knew and would know would not except what I really am. Nothing made ke this way,every since I could remember I could always feel attracted to men, but lmost told myself I was attracted to women because that is the”norm”. So today, I accept who I am and I can’t change it, just as much as I ant turn you gay, I can’t be straight, and I was surely born this way, and I am very happy with my fiance who had very similar experiences with his sexuality, who recognized that not only did he
@tmo0792, like women, but men too, and he is still bisexual, despite being the one that asked me, he did not choose a side he, fell in love and choose a person to spend the rest of his life with, because he knew it in his heart, that after Being best friends for nearly a decade, I am the one he wants to spend the rest of his life with
@airguitarpro, first of all it is the truth. Truth isnt relative. Second of all I literally said my biblical beliefs aside. It is absolutely contradictory to evolution. Just because you say " well its actually thought to be beneficial" doesnt mean that it is. People like you amaze me. Just because some lunatic years ago (yes he was actually clinically insane) said we came from apes, doesnt mean that we did. There is literally no sound evidence whatsoever. Even Charles Darwin admitted to their being a higher power at work. The Bible also lines up with science and historical records. Whereas evolution is just completely asinine when you look at it with absolutely any common sense.
@ptitty1231, I find it interesting they don’t sue the Arab bakeries for not making gay wedding cakes. Hmmm
@tmo0792, "You are biologically a boy a girl there is no in between."
This is patently false. There are plenty of naturally occurring chromosome combinations that produce individuals outside of male/female: Atkinson's (?), wolf child syndrome, and mega females to name a few.
@tmo0792, Where does your “truth” gain credence? Thousands upon thousands of studies build upon the fundamentals of evolution. We can see evolution take place over years amongst microbial life in studies due to their very short life span and high reproduction rate. If you really want to die on the hill proclaiming evolution is fake while you spout that the bible should be taken literally, then I truly do not know how to have a constructive discussion with you. The fact that you claim to use science as one of your pillars of arguments while you fervently disapprove of evolution and the complexity of homosexuality just demonstrates how disingenuous your ability to argue is. You will not win any points by blindly going against evolution. Charles Darwin wrote literally thousands of pages on proof that evolution exists, yet you take one sentence he said that agrees with your belief and put it on a pedestal while you ignore the rest. Darwin was unable to explain everything as the technology
@Jdrawer, to be fair those instances make up so minute of groups. I would like to actually study and see how these things occured. Probably something the parents did to cause it just like when a mother drinks alcohol or does drugs. It messes the child up. Probably something similar.
@tmo0792, He had access to back then was unable to allow him access into those realms of knowledge. You must be ridiculously fragile in your beliefs to feel so threatened by science that you use its credence to support your hypocritical and ludicrous thoughts. Tell me, just how scared are you to be wrong? That maybe you dug yourself a little too deep? Is it everyone around you that is wrong, or could it be that you may not have the necessary background to be making these arguments, and, perhaps, you may be incorrect? But please, continue touting nonsense and calling other people, who actually have a shred of respect for science and use its powers in earnest, morons because they can genuinely prove you wrong in almost every capacity. What a few weak arguments you have crafted thus far. Honestly, it’s disgusting. The fact that I merely suggested holes in your argument, and you overcompensated so much as to call me a “moron” simply shows how unwilling you are to use facts and logic.
@tmo0792, Regardless of how uncommon we may think these instances are, it just goes to show that transgender individuals aren't as unnatural or disproven by science as previously thought.
@airguitarpro, because he was clinically insane. Why would I believe anything he says. I have read plenty that he wrote and a lot of it is so contradictory and have you actually sat down and done these studies yourself? Probably not. You're going off of something you've been taught and drilled to believe. Also I'd like to ask you this. How come there are no missing links and no forms of humans evolving or, animals for that matter, in today's times. I would say that if anything we are devolving. The current state of most of humanity is rather stupid, save a small percent. Animals are going extinct. Dont even say that its humanity's fault either because it's not. If it were humanity's fault then why havent they evolved to adapt and overcome this living conditions.
@airguitarpro, lol you say that you use "facts and logic" but have no substantial evidence and would think that's its completely sane to believe that we came from a freaking monkey and amoebas even though there is no record of any evolution occurring besides some psycho writing them down in a book.
@tmo0792, Finally, I would like to say that Darwin was not immediately embraced by the scientific community. There were massive arguments to his findings. After years of experiments and studies which continued to confirm Darwin’s observations, however, regardless of personal opinion, scientists had no choice but to accept Darwin’s theory of evolution. I cannot stress enough the sheer magnitude of impossibility Darwin would have faced in turning a bunch of 1850s scientists, most of whom were great believers of intelligent design, into believers of evolution had he not presented a mountain of decisive evidence which proved, beyond any reasonable doubt, that evolution has existed, exists , and will continue to exist as a key mechanism of life on this planet. If you still wish to continue arguing as to the certainty of existence of evolution, then make note that you’re completely outclassed in evidence, studies, logic, and truth. Good luck.
@airguitarpro, give me two examples of evolution occurring right now I want you to tell me. Give me any form of evidence. Meanwhile Charles Darwin admitted God was real and that most of the garbage he came up with in his delusional world was just that. False
@tmo0792, I’m going to ignore most of your drivel as its mostly unsubstantial to our argument, let alone correct. You want two examples of evolution taking place in recent time? I can give you a million if I had the time. Here’s a few examples: ever had the flu? Do you know what the flu is caused by? I know its not something the bible teaches you so I wouldn’t expect you to understand how the flu works. Buckle your seatbelt because if you think us evolving from “monkies” is nutty, wait till you hear about the common flu! The flu is a tiny microbial life called the influenza virus (meaning it attacks your respiratory system by binding to your receptor sites in your respiratory tract) and releasing its own RNA (oof acronym that stands for a big word, google it if you need to), which eventually leads to the hostile takeover of our immune system and body on a microbial level. Why can the flu seemingly never end? Why do we still have cases? Don’t we have flu shots? Why do we need them every
@tmo0792, year? Well, its because the flu virus mutates rapidly and adapts quickly. Its quick to... how we say “evolve” to its surroundings and the vaccines we create to combat it. There is a very common example of evolution we face every year.
@airguitarpro, the flu... you're going to use the flu. Yes it adapts, but we also adapt as humans to our surroundings. I want to get a job as a doctor I go to school and learn and adapt. That's not evolving. It's still the flu. I'm a human I didnt evolve and change from a monkey. That's evolution not adapting. The flu has and always will be the flu.
@tmo0792, “BUT AIRGUITARPRO” I hear you say, “thats only ONE example, and vaccines are demonstrably evil (probably!)!!!” Have no fear, my friend, we shall move on to yet another example, devoid of pesky vaccines and their controversies. Lets talk about life “finding a way” in extreme environmental conditions. Now these sorts of endemic life are called “extremophiles;” they live in places that they really have no business living in. How do microorganisms live near the high pressure and high temperature hydrothermal vents of the sea floor? Surely they would die? I mean you and I and almost every organism we know cannot survive those extreme conditions. Yet these little guys, specifically, can ONLY survive in these conditions. Its almost like they adapted to their environment in order to live in an area which is free from competition and allows them their own niche. But that may be jumping conclusions. Care for another example?
@tmo0792, The difference between the flu and you is the flu does not adapt in its own life time. It takes several thousands of generations for the flu to adapt physically to become immune to a vaccine. Also your adaptation is not a physical change brought about by environment over generations. Thats called a choice you make. How silly to confuse the two. Adaptation is literally a core tenant in Darwin’s argument, so again, you are demonstrably wrong. Keep trying.
@airguitarpro, yeah they adapted but they are still the dame organism. I'm still waiting on you to explain how I could have come from a monkey and give me evidence of doing so. Carbon dating is extremely flawed so what else do you have. Yes things and humans adapt to certain living situations but animals and humans will never change their appearance or being to become something they are not. Look man I see what you're saying but we can agree to disagree. I'd like to have this conversation again sometime but I've gotta go to work and earn money so I can adapt to the shiy tax situation Obama put me in. I apologize for coming across as an asshole have a good day buddy
@ptitty1231, welp, congrats on having the most upvotes I've ever seen on a comment. I hope to one day teach your godly level
@tmo0792, Evolution isn’t an instant process, it took millions of years for the majority of organisms that also being me and maybe you to become what we are today. And for your “pRoOf” of the “MiSsInG lInK” look at the fossil record you’ll see how myself and maybe you evolved from great apes not monkeys you swine.... which these are called the hominids.... also look at other species and how there are transitional species between them and what they evolved from specifically look at whales and orcas...
@HSA, They weren’t refusing to serve the person, they were refusing to make a cake bearing a specific message. If (he?she? I forget which way they were transitioning) walked in and wanted to buy a doughnut, there wouldn’t have been a problem. If I (a cis-gen male) asked for a ‘transitioning cake’ or whatever, he’d probably have refused me too.
@tmo0792, You didn’t evolve from a monkey, none of us did. We evolved from the sane common ancestor as the monkey - evolution took our branch one way and we became people, took theirs another and they became monkeys.
@Pachirisu, all I wanted was to say that it seems silly to go out of someone's way to sue a person for pariah points when the path of least resistance is to go to different store that would give them the cake they wanted! I didn't mean to get people riled up over it!!!
@ptitty1231, Hey friendo, you’re totally fine. I don’t think anyone (besides three people, apparently?) have a problem with you. It was the replies that were a dumpster fire and I just really have too much respect for this app to just silently let that kind of crap go free on here (unironically saying evolution is fake and homosexuality is a choice and inherently evil and is in line with stealing, murder, and lying). Don’t feel bad for making an awesome comment, this pic was bound to rustle up some shjtstorm, if it wasn’t on your comment it would just be on someone else’s. Not your fault. In fact, I happen to kind of agree with your take and I appreciate that you were respectful with your argument too. I also just wanna say I always enjoy your comments on pics. Have a nice night man!
@airguitarpro, oh thank you, I appreciate the sincerity. You as well dude!
Make the pie as a bomb
Stop this garbage and leave the man alone already
Well he's just gonna win again. The situation is nearly identical
I don't really understand what Christian morals have to do with cake, but being not being a smart business man isn't illegal.
@crazylampshademan, well to put it simply. He is religous and making a cake for a gay wedding would be against his beliefs. Bottom line dont ask a religious company to do what they dont believe in.
@crazylampshademan, Thing is, he offered them to buy any cake in stock. But they insisted they wanted a custom made cake. He refused on the grounds that he doesn’t want to personally make a custom wedding cake for something he believes goes against his religion.
@TheRatMan, no I get it dude. He's totally within his rights. I'm just saying that queer weddings are an absolute cash cow. I'm assuming he must be the only cake guy in town where ever they are. If that's the case, it would make the most business sense to make the cake. Gays spend a lot on weddings. Kind of "cutting off your nose to spite your face" a little.
@crazylampshademan, Eh, I mean money or not it’s his morals he’s putting out there. But yea ever since this incident first surfaced I always hoped that he was like the only big cake guy in town cause if not it comes off like these people knew it would stir shjt.
@TheRatMan, I hope so too. Like, what is the max distance you would drive for a custom wedding cake? I think max for me would be 2 hours because after that I'd worry about transporting. If I ever summon enough of a shiv to git, I would look up what the next closest cake store was. Chances are, I won't.
@crazylampshademan, this guy isn't the only cake shop in town. The gay couple actually went and had a cake made from another bakery not too far away from them. They had been customers of this baker for years and knew he was a Christian. He had served them every single time before. He just didn't want to be apart of a celebration that went against his religious beliefs. So when they sued him, it wasn't because he was their only option or he was being homophobic. They were being vindictive.
@iLikeBigBooks, I mean, that sucks. On the same hand though, it also isn't illegal to seek legal vindication. He's fine abiding his beliefs, and they're fine to try to sue him, as shaky (nearly nonexistent) as the grounds are. We live in a very litigious culture. I blame the false promises made by big government.
@crazylampshademan, the saddest part of this whole thing is this baker has now been sued 3 times. The first gay couple lost, then someone sued him again on the gay couples behalf and lost again. Now this person is suing him. Since he is known for this now, people just keep trying to destroy his career because they don't agree with him.
@iLikeBigBooks, as far as they’re concerned, not supporting gay marriage is wrong-think, and they want to destroy him for it.
It did that on purpose because it knew he wouldn't do it
I’d have to file this under targeting
Bake it. And fill it with testosterone boosters.
@A Deformed Penis, that may be against FDA regulations
@A Deformed Penis, hey! That's illegal!
@A Deformed Penis, I think you're just looking for a friend mister deformed penis.
How about this. Have him bake the cake by describing what it is and how you want it to look. But not telling him what its for. If he asks. Just say birthday. Assuming its not an obscene request (which would could nullify his religious excuse if he accepted some obscene requests)
Just as he’s free to practice his religion. If he doesn’t ask what its for and doesn’t know. That moral dilemma is gone. Because after all its just a cake and its really none of his business why its being eaten or who eats it. Since he would’ve sold them a normal cake anyway. Theres no reason for him to know the real event its for.
They shouldn’t be suing, but why tf didn’t he just make the cake? I literally never agree with my customers, doesn’t mean I should refuse to put the pineapple on the pizza
I dont like religious people who refuse to render their services to people who go against their believes. But its kinda their choice and no one should be forced to.
“Autumn scardina” more like “autism up in ya”
You don't need to sue, for Christ's sake. Gordon Ramsay says customers vote with their feet, so move em to another cake shop.
Ppl are stupid. Ppl who cling to their religious beliefs with such zeal that it risks their livelihoods and ppl who use emotion to dictate how they want society perceive themselves because daddy didn’t love them enough, or maybe loved them too much. But in this case, it’s the trans ppl that are at fault. The 1st amendment is there for a reason and it is HIS business. He can do whatever the fvck he wants, withing reason ofc.
while i dont hate the lgbt+ community because my brothers part of it
this is disgraceful that person has no right to sue the guy