Well, we flattened that curve.
That means that just as many people are going to get sick and die, but it’s just going to take longer.
I think we just have a whole lot more people who have simply decided that living in fear isn’t worth it.
@A Deformed Penis, my reasoning is that we have a starving population on our hands. If no one's able to work then the food can't be produced. You can't pay them for there labor if you have no job.
So open everything back up.
The only other option I've heard from people is for the goverment to pay the farms. Which is somewhat funny, cause they don't understand what a fascist economy looks like.
@A Deformed Penis, not with two separate 90%+ efficacious vaccines around the corner. Flattening the curve most definitely saves lives in this case—because we’re not all going to have to get Covid, for it to end Edit: This is a genuine attempt to understand, not to argue—why the downvotes?
@A Deformed Penis, some places may have flattened it, but the trend in my state is exponential increase over the last month.
@A Deformed Penis, Living in fear isn’t worth it considering covid has a very low mortality rate at this point. The vast majority of people would have what amounts to a nasty flu for a few days and then will be fine.
@Weird Porn Stash, When all the politicians lock themselves inside and don't go out, I'll follow them by example, until then life's to short to not live.
@A Deformed Penis, thank you, deformed penis. Like your username would suggest, you’re clearly the problem here. The number of positive tests in the US (as a percentage of all tests) has doubled in the last month. Even as the number of tests increases, the number of infections is increasing much faster. We haven’t flattened the curve at all. As for not living in fear, I’m glad you have that luxury, but maybe spare a thought for the many, many folks around you with chronic health conditions (or who live with high-risk family members). This virus could kill me, and I really wish people would consider that before dismissing this as “just the flu”- the flu kills tens of thousands of people a year in the US, and we actually have a vaccine for that.
@Kyroll, you can choose to keep yourself safe.
@RayFinkelsFunBags, That’s a real answer here. Some people are actually at risk, but we can’t hold back the vast majority of people from having a life just to keep a smaller group safe. It’s their own responsibility to keep themselves safe. Most people don’t have the privilege to not work.
@Weird Porn Stash, so what's the morbidity rate? Also, let's not ignore the tens of thousands coming out of this with permanent brain, heart, and lung damage. If half of them are not able to work anymore and are added to the 250k+ dead, that's a good damn dent in our economy.
@A Deformed Penis, the point of flattening the curve was to postpone sickness so we could get better at treating it, we just didnt want everyone to catch it in the first 2 weeks. Now when people get sick theres room at the hospital and we are way better at treating it.
@Weird Porn Stash, What a piece if shyt you are, it's everyone's responsibility to keep everyone safe, please don't ever breed, we don't need anymore a$$holes in the world
@Mistyblue Ghost, “Ass” isn’t censored on the app
@Kyroll, not only have we not flattened the curve, but he misunderstood how flattening the curve works, it doesn’t mean the same amount of people will get sick and die, the idea is that EVEN IF the same amount of people DO get sick, far less will die. For anyone who’s wondering Why, because if 5000 people on one county get the virus in a week, there may not be enough beds, respirators, doctors and nurses etc, and care will decline, and more people will die. If 5000 people get the virus in the same county over the course of a month, ICU beds, docs and nurses etc will be able to handle their caseload far easier and can more appropriately move resources to who needs them most, and not have to make decisions like “well he could live if we have him a respirator, but his odds still aren’t good, so we write off this grandpa to save someone’s mom or dad” that is the fundamental reason we’re taking all these precautions, so that hospitals have the best odds to fight the virus and save lives
@Weird Porn Stash, Apparently not or you wouldn't be here
@Mistyblue Ghost, mad
@Mistyblue Ghost, No, it's not everyone's responsibility to keep everyone safe. In a perfect world that would be nice.
Your main problem stems from the fact that in order to keep people safe, we need to have a functioning country, and shutting down everything is breaking our country. Thus, making it less safe.
@thatoneguymaybe, There are plenty of ways to keep people safe while avoiding complete lockdowns. Temporary shutdowns, limited-capacity public places and mask fines, I'm all for
@Mistyblue Ghost, Mask fines? That is unconstitutional, and should never be put in place. We like our country thank you, no need to make us like 1942 Germans.
We already have been doing temp shutdowns, and limited capacity public places. They didn't really do much, aside from put businesses out, and now many are shutting down permanently, meaning a loss of jobs, which leads to more problems.
@thatoneguymaybe, Any restrictions on gatherings is of course helping to mitigate the spread of the virus, studies have proved that beyond a doubt so "not doing much good" is just absurd. This is a pandemic, people are going to lose businesses and jobs, ignoring temporary viable solutions is what's going to lead to more problems.
@Mistyblue Ghost, The question is by how much, which we don't have data on.
But losing too many jobs/businesses will lead to even worse outcomes. More starving people, less access to basic needs, and loss of homes.
I'm not saying to take away all restrictions. But if the vulnerable would stay home, and/or protect themselves, the rest of us could continue to keep everything working.
We know who is vulnerable, except for a few rare cases. So we can make the determination.
@thatoneguymaybe, Right, only the virus doesn't work that way, it doesn't pick and choose solely among the vulnerable, it's passed to asymptomatic carriers, such as healthcare workers in intermediate care facilities. The virus is claiming more animals and children, it can change. And nobody knows where the virus came from, meaning it can very well happen again, hopefully we'll be better prepared if that happens. But meanwhile, temporary limited-capacity restrictions, mask-wearing, washing hands and social distancing are the current alternatives to complete lockdowns. And I would totally be up for being a mask meter maid or cough cop🤣
@Mistyblue Ghost, Except it does work that way, there are specific vulnerable people. Just like any virus, and it technically can be passed by asymptomatic carriers, but transmission is less, due to not having the symptoms that spread it more.
We do know where it came from, the fact you think we don't is scary. It's frm China. Unless you mean what caused it?
These aren't really temp solutions, if they are going on a year. I think a new strategy is needed.
I'm not entirely surprised you are for such things. But we have freedoms in this country, and that is a clear violation.
I'm glad you are in favor of making our country more and more like a fascist country.
@thatoneguymaybe, It's a mistake to believe the virus only impacts older people and those with underlying conditions, not to mention age, race and sex being factors, with many young people with no underlying conditions having died from it. "It came from China" is great as a catchall phrase but lacks a true genesis. I personally think the virus came to earth on a meteorite that struck China last October, whether due to a nefarious alien agenda to downsize earth's population, or by accident, who knows, but if you've ever seen the Ancient Aliens episode about the correlations between meteors hitting earth right before the onset of plagues (Black Plague being one) it's plausible. What solutions do you have for the pandemic? Or were you just pointing out the obvious?
@Mistyblue Ghost, I never once defined what vulnerable meant, you are assuming I specifically meant old people, and those with underlying conditions?
There are cases of those unexpected to die, but it's not very common, and we don't have much data as to why it would seem.
Yes, I was trying to point out the obvious, and while we don't know much about its origins since China wants to hide it, along with their true numbers with CO-VID, we do know the spread started from there.
You are welcome to believe what you want, and while I'm not going to speak to that theory in particular, it's certainly an... interesting way to look at it.
@thatoneguymaybe, A+ for the debate, you showed true tenacity and backed up your arguments with (debatable) evidence. Now if we can get these other yahoos on this app to use their critical thinking skills, the world would be a better place.
@Mistyblue Ghost, Thank you for the compliment, I think? But yes, I agree most don't know how to use critical thinking, and it would greatly improve things.
@thatoneguymaybe, Yes that was a compliment, most people on this app can't seem to hear out both sides of an argument without one-off insults like "libtard" or "snowflake" or "triggered" or "mad?" or "Karen" or, and this is my personal favorite, "demoncrat"
@Mistyblue Ghost, You do realize you kicked off this whole thing by calling me a piece of shjt and an asshole, right? You talk about yourself like you aren’t an emotional reactionary when that’s exactly what you are.
@Weird Porn Stash, Well no, it's you, just you, you're definitely an a$$hole, everyone else is aces and brought real conversations to the table. You're just a piece of meh with nothing valuable to contribute, and I'm sure your mom would agree. F- in debate class for you.
@Mistyblue Ghost, why are you still so mad. It’s just a meme app
@Weird Porn Stash, That's exactly why you're not in our debate club, go away, shoo!, nobody cares what you have to say
@Mistyblue Ghost, nobody had the responsibility to keep others safe. Moral obligation? Maybe, but responsibility? No.
@Spetsnaz , have we had extreme overcrowding where we had to decide who gets treatment/ lives or dies?
@jabopples, Responsibility means being held accountable, Trump supporters wouldn't be able to sleep at night if they they thought they were complicit in the 260,000+ deaths from the virus that Trump did nothing to help prevent, just by voting for him. Couldn't have that now, could we?
@jabopples, yes, it typically happens on a local level, but big examples would be New York and Seattle in the first months, and Some parts of the Midwest currently. A friend of mine lives in western NC and his offices parking lot got taken over by a neighboring hospital who bought the trailers they use as temporary schoolrooms and was converting them into rooms for people who were getting out of the ICU. Typically understaffing and a lack of equipment like ventilators will become an issue before bed space though.
@Spetsnaz , seems like you’re misinformed on what flattening the curve means. Good try
@big freedom, gotta love how I can comment anything and it’ll piss off your retard ass lmao. You gonna charge me rent to live in your head?
@Spetsnaz , he replies to the most innocuous comment while believing he’s so immune. You’re childish and it would amuse me if it didn’t make me sad for the future.
@big freedom, lol okay boomer. For whomever makes the unfortunate decision to read this far I’ve edited this comment, I feel I need to say something but responding to him no longer feels ethical. his response to my 3 word comment gave me pause, and honestly made me pity him, he’s a grown man with kids and quite frankly and I think my poking fun at him has clearly bothered him beyond what is healthy and harmless. It always comes to insults with this guy, but this time I actually feel bad for doing this to him. I’ve always found this guy a goofy caricature to mess with, but he’s gotten more and more mean spirited and I fear my actions (and his reactions) will bleed into his real life. Use this as an example of why to not engage with childish people online, it’s a bit of sick fun, but for some people it clearly affects them beyond the medium of the internet, as they have difficulty separating the tangible and intangible, I hope he gets better for his sake and his kids sake.
@Spetsnaz , who’s living in who’s head now? I own you, but that’s not saying much. You’re incredibly weak minded. It’s like picking on a disabled kid at this point. Sorry sport! Keep your chin up! Don’t ever let anyone tell you that you’re not just as capable as the normal kids.
Covid is winning
@megamanx181x, but I ain't skeered!
@megamanx181x, I had the Rona. It was almost as scary as a mild flu.
edit: I didn't realize so many people would disagree my experience. Or that there was anything about my experience to disagree with. But hey, in this day and age, I guess being easily triggered is normal.
@Empshok, I had the Rona, it needed some lime
@That one lurker, did you put it in the coconut?
@Empshok, Hi. Intensive care doctor here. You have no idea how angry your statement makes me. We are on our knees, the staff can’t take much more. We are working around the clock with ICUs overcrowded with people always on the brink of death. And then, there are people like you. People that downplay the danger of this pandemic. If you end up in my ICU, I will treat you. And loathe you.
@Dr Crowntwig, You are mad because he had a mild case of it and said so? I can understand your anger if he said it was all a hoax and all that. But all he did was state what his experience was like. Seems like maybe you over reacted?
@kakarot86, also want to add thank you for all the work you and your teams do. I dont want you to think I was trying to attack you or downplay how hard this is for some people and for those of you on the front lines. ( edited for spelling )
@kakarot86, fair enough. I might’ve overreacted upon interpreting his statement as trying to downplay the seriousness. Many do. And after countless nights trying, and too often failing, to save people from this “flu” with nothing but coffee in my belly, I have had enough. If I overreacted, then I apologize.
@Empshok, a coworker had high fever for 29 days and hardly managed by himself.
@Dr Crowntwig, I was definitely not trying to downplay the pandemic. I was just stating my own experience. I wear a mask in public, correctly and I quarantined for the recommended time period even after being asymptomatic for days. I'm not contributing to the problem.
@Dr Crowntwig, thank you for your hard work. It's infuriating to see people act like others are getting sick and, although living, aren't being permanently damaged by this virus.
@Empshok, I probably overreacted, and quite possibly misinterpreted. I’m tired to my bones. I am sorry.
@Desiderata, it's infuriating that so many people choose to read something that was not intended or written the way you interpreted.
@Empshok, sucks to be you.
@Desiderata, I'd imagine being an ignorant dumbass sucks even more, so, thanks for reminding me that there is always someone worse off than me.
@Empshok, seems like my response to the intensive care doctor above must have triggered you. Although I wasn't speaking about you personally, I guess if it resonates in you enough to make you act like a child on an app for my entertainment, GOOD.
I've had the misfortune of dealing with your anti-vax disinformation stupidity in the past, so it's no surprise you attempted to downplay this virus and then are acting like a hurt dog when it didn't go the way you hoped, gnashing your teeth ar anyone who dare challenge your ego.
@Dr Crowntwig, you didn't overreact and your response was perfect.
@Desiderata, never tried to downplay the virus. I was just responding to the original comment about "COVID is winning" to say it hasn't beaten me. I'm actually a Registered Nurse, and I'm not sure which statement I made that your delusional mind twisted into "anti-vax," but you should probably get professional help for that.
@Empshok, telling people to not get the flu vaccine is anti-vax rhetoric. As a nurse, maybe you shouldn't use mental health as a weapon and tell people to "seek help". I weep for anyone under your care.
@Dr Crowntwig, dude you are allowed to be sensitive about anyone downplaying. I get it. I’m a teacher and it infuriates me when I see kids crowded together and not masking. I legit have POTS syndrome Dysautonomia and KNOW that POTS is on the rise in kids who get COVID. They may not die but their lives will be forever fcked. Scary
@megamanx181x, lies! I wish it was, then I could get it and be free of this absolute train wreck of stupidity.
@Dr Crowntwig, imma laugh when we get a single payer gu’bment healthcare system and your pay is cut to $120k (if you’re lucky) and you aren’t allowed to treat more than a set number of patients a month because policy says.
Do you have any patients under 70 who aren’t morbidly obese smokers or a shït out of luck cystic fibrosis patients? How much of your ICU over capacity/understaffed situation is due to hospital CEOs trying to milk the COVID19 tït for all it’s worth without increasing costs? How many of your patients could have been diverted to a less crowded hospital but management refused?
Dude, I get your specific situation might be shït right now, but I would be flabbergasted if it wasn’t due to the bean counters. Get your hands on the hospital financials, talk to the surrounding hospital critical care docs, look at ambulance contracts and laws.
This “disaster” is far more a political one that has resulted it people losing their lives than it is a true natural disaster.
@Dr Crowntwig, lololol it's really sad and pathetic that you are pretending to be a doctor on an app for memes. Good luck pal.
@Captain Rumble, I am not pretending, but seeing as there is no way for me to make you believe that, I will not even try. Have a nice day.
@Hot Coffee, I am all for debate. But your ignorance is beyond the scope of a meme-app forum. It would take more resources than I am willing to offer up to make you see what the truth is. I saddens me that there are people that genuinely believe what you say, it really does. I will accept the things I cannot change and go off to my next shift in a few hours to see how many patients there are today. Have a nice day.
@megamanx181x, i pray to any god that can wipe out human existence.
@Empshok, killin humans is a good enough reason. Seriously humans arent special at all. Maybe this will distract them downvotes. Fvck all you humans. Including myself.
@Empshok, no need to defend yourself.
@Dr Crowntwig, no one cares if your tired to the bone.
@Cuactemoc4919, I've been feeling that a lot lately. I hope you're wrong, but it hasn't felt wrong in a long, long time.
@Empshok, sadly im cursed with being right. Humans have to and need to die. We arent good.
@Cuactemoc4919, we are a product of nature and evolution. You come from a very misguided, misinformed, and illogical ideology.
@Dr Crowntwig, I’m going to downplay it. 43 people in my church got the virus. Not a single one ended up in the ER. That includes my pregnant wife.
Perhaps it depends on the strain. Or perhaps it’s that most people in my church are very healthy as we prioritize it?
As much as it sucks, please don't go out unless you really need to. And in the event you do go out wear a friggin mask.
The sooner we all do that the sooner things get back to normal.
A) Why would anybody want to go anywhere?
B) Masks, as it turns out, don’t actually do much to reduce the spread
C) The prevalence and risk vary wildly by location. Basically, it’s going to go rampant through every community at some point. That’s just how respiratory viruses work.
@Sexy Homunculus, "but mister Sexy, I really need to smash the patriarchy"
"But mister Sexy, I really need to go down to China town to fight against racism."
- Nancy Pelosi Late February
"But mister Sexy, this Brown guy ODed on fentanyl while the cops was trying to deescalate the situation. I need to burn buildings and steel shoes."
"But mister Sexy, we just won an election, the orange flu is gone. We need to party and share champagne with strangers on the street."
-Invalids in pact citys November
"Look guys, this will be a big virus. Absolutely, Huge, we just going to ask you to shelter down 15 days. Ok. This won't take long. Just please."
-some fascist nazi dictator that doesn't deserve your respect cause he didn't killed every person that died of covid personally with his orange flu, early February
Give me a reason to believe, that after a bunch of authoritarians who lied about a man for 4 years, would give up absolute power after we give it to them.
@A Deformed Penis, masks do work.
@Sexy Homunculus, wearing masks and not going out isn't going to make it go away. As soon as the population does go out, cases will spike again.
@Sexy Homunculus, I don’t believe that. In places like Italy they did that. As soon as they opened back up cases spiked and they shut back down
@That one lurker, damn that's based. All true though.
@3d2y, give me one scientific study that says the most common mask (cotton face coverings) work outside of a medical grade washing machine.. I'll wait. You won't be able to find one. Masks are utterly useless in the current usage of them. If we all wore N95s and never fiddled with it or anything it could help. But there is no science to back up that masks in their current usage or lockdowns helped in slowing the spread of the virus, actually quite the opposite.
@A Deformed Penis, masks do mitigate transmission. You're confusing studies that show masks are innefective at protecting the wearer.
I was in a hospital with pnemonia all week. Every nurse I overheard talking about covid sounded terrified by the amount of new cases rushing in. Wear your goddamn masks, you mooks.
New cases are up because testing is up. Deaths are down because Covid isn't that bad for most people and we've gotten better at treating it.
@Captain Magma, mortality isn’t and shouldn’t be the only metric used to justify that “COVID isn’t that bad for most people.” We still don’t fully understand the lasting effects of this disease. There are numerous research articles published indicating that morbidity could be relatively high. There are plenty of cases where young, healthy adults have experienced prolonged or even permanent cardiac inflammation and scaring, serious decreases in lung capacity and even permanent neurological complications. And no, we really haven’t gotten better at treating it as in there is literally no treatment other than treating the symptoms (I.e drink water and take fever reducers) and hoping ventilation isn’t necessary
@Jambi, There are actually treatments for it. Drink water and take fever reducers are not the only treatments. The president used a treatment for Covid. And I understand the fact that's there are things about the disease that we don't know, but we do know for a fact that lockdowns lead to crippling the economy, depression and suicide. So I'd rather avoid the definite destruction and try my hand at the very low death rate, and possibly, maybe, we don't really know long term effects
@Captain Magma, one of reasons the deathrate may be down for covid is because dumbass governors like cuomo aren't putting covid patients into nursing homes causing more than 6k deaths alone.
@owanobi, Very true
@Captain Magma, Fair, I’ll concede. Yes, there are other treatments. However, in the case of Donald trump the use of monoclonal antibodies was an emergency, experimental treatment, something the general public will never have access to so that’s a tough point to argue. In addition, mAbs are incredibly expensive and many (if not most) hospitals don’t have the capability to manufacture them. Not only that but they’re made on a per person basis because they have to use your DNA which would be far too time intensive for the hundreds of thousands of patients. Look, I totally agree with you, prolonged lockdowns are not the best solution but it’s currently our only one until a vaccine is widely available (hopefully soon). The point I was attempting to make was the spread of misinformation is detrimental to the general public’s view on science and that giving a false sense of security that people will be unaffected because COVID has a very low mortality will likely cause more deaths.
250,000 dead, but it’s no big deal until it happens to someone you know. Wear a mask for someone else, not yourself.
Mask do mitigate transmission. You're confusing studies that show masks don't protect the wearer.
This reminds me of that edit of the world’s COVID cases with Gas Gas Gas playing when America just shoots past everyone else.
@AceWolf456, I don't agree with your words. But I like that meme. Have a like.
Man, sure have a lot of doctors and medical professionals in this comment section.
@FirstNameLastName, "don't believe your lying eyes, I'm a doctor!"
I'm so glad we have a vaccine with 70% efficiency, I'm sure my immune system with 98% efficiency will be glad we waited.
And I hear my grandpa going on about it’s all media hype when 3 million cases happen in the us this month. Even if it is hype and they doubled it. That is 1.5 million infections. We walked by a park today covered with kids and parents, no make or distancing at all.
@thejamesshow00, I mean... an open economy WOULD mean more cases. But, what about hospitalizations and deaths? Are those skyrocketing? Not in my area...
Just because there’s a lot of cases, doesn’t mean everyone is getting sick or dying from it.
@Switchblader, so much this. And funny thing is, is that there are only 4 known cases of people catching it again. And this is with a known sample size in the tens of millions. So as of right now, once you catch it you are safe. And including all of the asymptomatic cases, the death rate for this virus is similar to the flu.
@TheGoogler, At least one of those guys had no symptoms the first time, and his body didn't produce the antibodies. When he had it "again", he had symptoms and produced the antibodies. The most likely scenario is he had a false positive the first time
@Captain Magma, yeah, I know about that one. I just left it in because they are counting it. I personally think there's only been 3 cases.
Its was only a kiss it was only a kiss how did it start out like this.
This is very irresponsible of FP to approve for posting, 260,402 deaths, people's lives torn apart, 12,418,730 confirmed positive, but hey, just turn up your tunes, play your video games and it's like it's not happening at all!
@Mistyblue Ghost, I mean we meme about things way more deadly than covid all the time, anytime you meme about WWII you have to recognize the hundreds of millions of people who's lives were torn apart by war. Stop acting like a virus with 99.99% death rate for anyone under 70 and without specific pre-existing conditions is the end of the world. We don't need to destroy the world economy to save us, the deaths from a destroyed economy will be 10x as much at least. There are already medical professionals from the WHO saying that the lockdowns are killing more people than saving due to alcoholism, depression, ect.
@owanobi, This isn't about war, lockdowns or the economy, this is about taking responsibility and helping to save human lives by doing your part to help prevent more deaths. Alcoholism, depression, the virus, wars, ALL preventable so stop acting like a bunch of multi-source casualty statistics is going to excuse anyone's snide complacency, this virus is on ALL of us to mitigate and prevent
@Mistyblue Ghost, so we are just supposed to lock ourselves inside and starve because the government told us to without evidence of it actually helping? I'm sorry but you can't just say that "Alcoholism and depression are preventable" when the the thing that is causing a huge spike in suicides and overdoses right now is the lockdowns. You just seem naive to the reality of the situation. There is no proven benefit to lockdowns, and only cause people mental stress from the economic downturn and stress. "people who surrender freedom for security deserves neither and will end up losing both"
@owanobi, I make a lot of money off the reality of the situation so pretty sure "naive" doesn't apply, however, you seem to need a little re-education. The context of Benjamin Franklin's quote was in regard to a tax dispute where the Penn family was trying to pay the Pennsylvania General Assembly for not taxing them for frontier defense during the French and Indian War, hence trying to purchase safety by giving up essential liberty. So trying to apply his quote to a lockdown situation doesn't fly, because Franklin also said "By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail." Aside from that, in lieu of a lockdown, do your part: wear a mask, wash your hands, quarantine 14 days after out-of-state travel, limit trips to the store, social distance and don't gather in groups (especially during the holidays)
@Mistyblue Ghost, I don't particularly care about the quote considering it still debated who the quote is attributed to, but nice deflection. I will do what I think is necessary on my part to not spread the virus around. Masks are not proven to help. And before you say yes they are, find me one scientific study that says the most common mask (cotton mask) is effective without being washed in a medical grade washing machine. You won't find one. The New York Times recently posted an article citing a study that says masks don't really help but "we should still wear them anyways." as they put it. Im done being told what to do by people who just want to control and not follow their own guidelines. Rules for thee but not for me you see. And people like you who preach and say we aren't taking it seriously while millions of people have lost their jobs, business, and livelihoods to lockdowns for a virus that only has a 0.01% death rate for most people are going to cause more strife.
@owanobi, If you're going to provide a quote, cite your source, regardless if it's disputable, it's English 101. Secondly, it's not a deflection to discuss alternatives to lockdowns, which I get it, your argument is more about people dying from alcoholism and depression during lockdowns and restrictions than dying of the actual virus, the exact correlation and specifics which could be haggled over for years to come. Mask efficacy has been proven in lab studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them, the common cold and flu were found to be significantly reduced wearing surgical masks, and a study of the COVID-19 growth rate found that mask-wearing slowed it down unquestionably. So I'll have to agree to disagree with you on that point. People don't want to follow any guidelines, not even their own, that's why the the infection rate is skyrocketing. "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - MLK Jr.
@Mistyblue Ghost, regardless of whether or not masks actually help or not, my argument is that while we *might* stop the virus from spreading and killing some people, we will ultimately end up dooming ourselves because of the economic impacts that are ALREADY showing. We won't have a country to open up to if we lockdown for months again. At least the ultra wealthy will ultimately benefit. If wearing a mask and submitting to authoritarian governors makes you feel better at the end of the day then good for you. It does not make me feel better and I will not stop defending the freedom we have.
@owanobi, Nobody is even talking about having more lockdowns, the "authoritarian" governors are posting recommendations, with temporary restrictions in some hot spot areas, like Texas, to control the virus spread, not control the people. Really you're being way paranoid about your "freedoms" and "liberties" being taken away, spoken like a true Trump rally wacko. What we're talking about is basic human decency and doing what you can to help people get through this pandemic so they too can enjoy freedoms and liberties that are, of course, subject to being shaped by corporate greed and nefarious political agendas, but that's a whole nother discussion altogether
@Mistyblue Ghost, Bruh, Biden's new plan is to institute a 4ish week nationwide lockdown, not to mention the dozens of states that are locking down right now like michigan or in my home state of California a curfew and then eventually a lockdown. So don't fvcking tell me there aren't lockdowns coming when that has no leg to stand on. The fact you are joking about us losing our freedoms is the whole problem, you are so keen to ruin everyone's livelihoods and destroy the economy for "human decency" which is a horrible excuse since more people have been negatively affected by the lockdowns. I also love how you automatically put me in the maga bro camp, which I am not. You call me paranoid but the Michigan governor is in the process of being impeached because of her authoritarian lockdowns. There were other states trying to put a $1k fine to just going the Fvck outside. A mask mandate is one thing but forcing people to stay in their home under authoritarian lockdown is not "human decency".
@owanobi, You need to get off the purple propaganda juice, turn off Tucker Carlson and just say no to conservative radio. "There will be no national shutdown.... There's no circumstance I can see that would require a total national shutdown." - Joe Biden, 5 days ago. Michigan has a partial shutdown, pretty sure nobody's going to jump off a bridge for three weeks of no Olive Garden and poker night with the boys. And there are plenty of limited-capacity places to go, such as stores, museums, libraries, etc. So no, not a total lockdown. There are no states fining for going outside, there was talk of fines for violating the months-ago travel order but nobody is saying you have to hole up in your house and not go anywhere. The California curfew isn't even saying you can't leave your house, you just can't have parties with the neighbors. I'm from Santa Cruz, nobody's freaking about it either. I'm all for the Euro model of fining for not wearing masks tho. So dude, just chill.
@Mistyblue Ghost, For the record I watch as much middle ground content I can and don't care for tucker or fox as they are just like the rest, but who cares. You suddenly are telling me to chill out when earlier you were getting triggered over a meme about covid and that people weren't taking it seriously but when I have legit grievances with lockdowns and the damage they cause and are causing you just tell me to chill. So honestly fvck off with your double standard. Whatever, the world goes on, who cares if millions of people have lost their jobs, lives, and business because of the lockdowns, and small business has crumbled, at least we saved everyone from a virus which 99.98% of people will be totally ok from. The little things right?
@owanobi, Oh yes, I have a double standard of pointing out complacency being dangerous in this time we least should have it but not indulging in your paranoia of lockdowns that have no basis in reality, gotcha. You were doing so well, I was going to give you an A+ for debate class but you fell apart at the end there, so B+ is all I have for you
@Mistyblue Ghost, no basis in reality? Bruh, I have personally lost jobs due to the lockdowns causing me financial problems, but sure no basis in reality. I live in the most libtard shlthole in the country, there will be more lockdowns, I prepared this time. You have no problem brushing off or even acknowledging the millions of people who like I have said have lost everything due to them. I wonder why? I give you a D+ in debate class for basically pulling everything normal libtards pull. Putting people into camps automatically, assuming I only watch the most right wing content out there, pulling the empathy or "human decency" card, saying I'm just paranoid while also having a double standard towards something way more dangerous than the virus. I rest my case, we are getting no where, I certainly hope you are right about the lockdowns, since if they do happen again, goodbye small business. Amazon and walmart will just make billions more from the destruction of small business.
@owanobi, I meant there is no basis to your fear of another lockdown, Biden already said there won't be a national lockdown and, unlike Trump, you can actually believe his word. The millions of people who have lost everything to the lockdowns will just have to rebuild under Biden, which they never could have under Trump. And don't say "libtard" in the same paragraph as "putting people into camps automatically" or you just look like a typical right-wing hypocrite. And if human decency is a card to be pulled, just deal me the whole deck bud. Also got news for you, Amazon and Wal-Mart were destroying small business long before the pandemic.
@Mistyblue Ghost, I feel there is no basis for your fear of the virus so I guess we are at an impass. I also wasn't necessarily calling you a libtard but if you want to take up that mantle then go ahead , I was just pointing out you are using their rhetoric verbatim.
On a personal note, I don't understand how people can say they can believe what Biden says. He is an establishment dem that will just end up blowing up more kids in who knows where and he ALREADY has lobbyists on his transition team. If you think he has your best interest at heart I feel you are mistaken. He had 40 years to do something good in office, he has not, this will not be any different. Like Trump isn't perfect but at least he got shvt done. 4 peace deals, decent follow up economic boom after Obama's very slow recovery from recession, and so on.
@owanobi, Oh Trump got shyt done alright, 263,025 coronavirus deaths under his watch, 12,629,940 infected while he's out golfing and skipping G2 meetings where the entire rest of the world is trying to do what they can to stop the spread, signed anti-environment policies, rolled back emissions standards, caged children, built only part of a useless wall, botched Hurricane Maria relief efforts, signed a massive tax giveaway for the rich...
@owanobi, ...Signed anti-immigrant and anti-refugee policies, tried to eradicate policies for US-born Dreamers, ignored gun violence, instigated racist violence, idolized authoritarian rulers, followed Hitler's playbook religiously, used shady tactics to appoint conservative judges, produced no viable healthcare policies, treated his job as his own reality tv show, cost tax-payers tens of millions of dollars to fund his 300+ golf outings, banned transgendered people from the military, withdrew from the UN Human Rights Council, abandoned Syrian Kurds, mocked people with special needs, grabbed women by the pu$$y, and raised national debt to $23 trillion dollars, so FAR FAR FAR from perfect.
@Mistyblue Ghost, damn I feel bad for you, he is living rent free in your head, most of that is false, and there is no legitimate way I could respond here to every single point. As far as covid goes, he is not "responsible" for those deaths, he did what he could do constitutionally without being the fascist dictator you want him to be, also the 14th amendment exists so legally he cant do anything. Besides are we not going to put any blame on the dem governors dooming old people in nursing homes to death by putting covid patients in there? It's not like old people are the most vulnerable or anything. As far as caging children.. Guess who built those cages my dude, guess who used them way more, Obama. Those cages are also there to protect children from trafficking since you don't know who the people are who cross the border illegally and they need to check, not that hard of a concept.
That "tax give away" also helped the middle class and I personally know people who took home thousands.
@Mistyblue Ghost, who cares about how much he golfs, how exactly did he follow hitlers playbook? That sounds like something a libtard would say, just saying. He banned mentally unstable people from being in the military, good. He used perfectly legal and constitutional ways instituted BY THE DEMOCRAT PARTY to appoint ACB and this process had been done many many times before an election. Don't know how he instituted racist violence, last time I checked the White Supremacists like Richard Spencer now openly support Biden lol. The comment about grabbing women by the puss is meh but he said they would want him to grab them.. So it was at least consenting so idc at all. How did he mock people with special needs? Are you referring to the reporter he mocked without knowing he was special needs and did a voice and jesture he has done hundreds of times?? K. Seems like you don't know what you are talking about and are just fed normal news media regurgitation.
@owanobi, Trump's been in everyone's heads whether they wanted him to be or not, for the past four+ years, I waited every second of that time to finally get to say he was the worst President, and human being quite frankly, in our lifetime, and to lay out the clear facts as to why. It's not my fault you got sucked into his lies and propaganda like a brainless zombie. And no, there is no way for you to respond to any of the listed facts, there's no argument against them because they're all true. I said the COVID happened under his watch and he did absolutely nothing to help fight it or to help protect the Americans he was supposed to be both leading and protecting. Trump was always in this for himself, not the American people, and if you believe otherwise, about any of the points I made, which you clearly do, you're going to have a rough time for the next four+ years, just like I did, along with half of the nation, for the last four+.
@Mistyblue Ghost, dude he closed the Borders way before Biden would have and Biden even called him Xenophobic for closing them so early. Nancy Pelosi also was cheering for people to go down to chinatown to hug chinese people there because Trump was being xenophobic. Trump did what he constitutionally could do. I hate to tell you this but CNN isn't a reputable source of information. Maybe get your talking points from somewhere else. I personally think he is the best damn president we have had in decades and actually cares about this country and the people in it. I was actually in the same situation as you, I hated Trump, I got fed the lies by the MSM and late night shows and once I realized they were lying to me way more often then not I stopped watching them and found my own sources. Im not saying im any better or worse than you, I just think you are misinformed on all of these ideals and you need to get out of you echo chamber.
@owanobi, Right, because anything you don't agree with had to have come from MSM and us libtards and demoncrats. I'm so sorry about your right-wing propaganda brainwashing but I'm sure Biden will have an affordable de-programming plan. Trump's ideological subversion plan obviously worked well on you, if you think Trump cares about anyone but himself, you've got hard lessons to learn when he cashes out on your support and heads to his golf courses, for which us tax-payers have paid tens of millions of dollars for secret service. Transgendered people aren't mentally unstable. Trump appointed an unqualified SC judge in hopes of overturning the election he already knew he was going to lose. "Stand back, stand by" ring a bell? Refusing to condemn white supremacy? You get "consent" out of "They would want me to grab them?" As a woman, there's so many levels of nope with that comment, I'm gonna guess you're forever alone. I agree on one point, you don't care at all.
@Mistyblue Ghost, arguing at this point is a waste of time, we are both firmly in our camps and our main differences is that we believe in different policies and ideals. So there is no way we will ever agree on anything when we are polar opposites politically. What you are telling me has already been debunked many many times. Like the white supremacy thing, you know how many times he has denounced it? Over 38 times on record. Oh well, I guess there is no reasoning with people who actually think he said white supremacists are good people and repost the edited clip to prove their point. Oh well. I agree to disagree and am moving on.
Also if Transgendered people are so mentally stable why is their suicide rate over 40% even after transitioning? 🤔
@Mistyblue Ghost, this video reminds me of people like you https://youtu.be/RG2j8P_4EKE I will just leave you with this, peace.
@owanobi, Thanks for the laugh, you spouting yet another wrong statistic proves my points so much better. If 40% of the trans population committed suicide every year, it would be a real tiny group, pretty sure you meant "attempted suicide" due in large part to housing discrimination, work discrimination, medical issues, school issues, bullying issues, family problems and general harassment by transphobics, leading to mental health issues, suicidal thoughts and attempts, for which they can't afford treatment. Even the WHO decreed they weren't mentally ill. So should you.
@Mistyblue Ghost, oh sorry my bad, "attempted" suicide. Doesn't really change my point. But I will never believe that they are of a sane mind since a normal mind is either male or female, and any deviation from that is scientifically unnatural and their multitude of mental issues along with being Trans proves this. My main problem with the normalization of this Trans culture is that they are forcing it on children, who can barely decide what they want on a normal day let alone decide something like their gender. You also can't give them hormone blockers since their effect can't be reversed and cause permanent damage.
Aydin Paladin on youtube has 2 great videos on the subject called "I'm Trans now? Diagnosing Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria" and "Gender is a Social Construct is a Social Construct". You also can't claim she is manipulating information since she is literally going over scientific studies and statistics with all the links available to decide for yourself.
@owanobi, There's a huge difference in attempts vs. deaths when you're echoing percentages. Equating insanity and mental illness to trans people is beautifully illustrated transphobia. "Normalization" means acceptance, so nope, not forcing anything on anyone, and if parents raised their kids right by sharpening their critical thinking skills, they will make well-informed choices for themselves. And you will simply have to accept their choices or stay in your own transphobic bubble.
@Mistyblue Ghost, call me transphobic all you want, if it is an adult that wants to do that with their life then I don't care, I don't have to respect them for that decision though.
You and me both know that parents are forcing hormone therapy on their kid because "they played with barbies once. so so I guess time to mutilate them permanently, and eventually they get over that phase and they regret every moment of their life, causing them to eventually *attempt* suicide probably more than once. Yea, I guess im against that idea. It's an extreme for sure but it definitely happens, the statistics back me up, just look at that aydin Paladin video, unless you are scared to get out of your echo chamber.
@Mistyblue Ghost, oh one last thing before I call a close on this ultimately useless debate, you say im being paranoid about lockdowns when just going off a list of currently locked down states: every state except Missouri , Tennessee, Florida, and Alaska are tightening their restrictions already and in my state, new Mexico, and Ohio there are stay at home orders or curfews. I am also going to mention that in the wonderful state of Oregon, Gov. Brown is telling people to call the police on people who are disobedient to these unconstitutional restrictions. So much for defund the police lmao. The CCP liked this post.
@owanobi, Congratulations, you've passed, debate club final grade: A+
@Mistyblue Ghost, people use comedy aka memes to cope with reality whether it be depression, stress, fear, etc. Call it whatever you want, approve, disapprove, it doesn't matter, but comedy is treatment to a lot of people. If you don't like it, fine, but it's not irresponsible.
And bytches i dont need healthcarw ima let myself die or euthanasia. Yeah i wont be bytching when i am sick. Its a blessing to know death is coming quick.