More like domestic terrorism
@Mantis Tobaggan, yeah this is practically the opposite of politics
@InsaneWolf, I used to think anti Trump people were super dramatic. I was never a big fan of his, but I thought they were just drama queens. Now I see how wrong I was.
@InsaneWolf, now, I haven't seen anything conclusive on whether or not he did rally them into doing this specifically, but his total stubbornness and unwillingness to admit defeat didn't help at all
@Mantis Tobaggan, I would feel a lot differently if sources didn’t say he was “giddy” about them breaking the police lines, and then didn’t tweet about how pence was to blame for not stopping the elector vote, while domestic terrorists were inside our place of government. It took him hours to tell the people to stop, and even when he did respond he didn’t rebuke them. He told them he loved them and they were special. Even if he did tell them to “leave in peace” it was long after he told them to March there, and stated that something had to be done. If he wasn’t trying to incite this, he did everything wrong to try and stop it. He is a risk/threat to American security, end of story.
@Spetsnaz , yeah I just read a lot of the speech and....uh yeah. I don't know what to say 😕
@Mantis Tobaggan, is there much difference at this point?
@Mantis Tobaggan, these dudes are antifa
@Mantis Tobaggan, kind like the BLM “peaceful protests” that left cities burning but those aren’t getting as condemned as this ( I’m not saying that this event was ok by any means either)
@Webbed Foot, nobody said anything about blm
@InsaneWolf, about as intelligent as politics is most of the time though
@Mantis Tobaggan, who got hurt? Who was threatened? Who made a threat? Stfu you dont know what your talking about.
@Mantis Tobaggan, imagine being this easily manipulated.
@CocoasBro, people died dumbass
@CocoasBro, imagine wanting to blow Trump this hard
@Mantis Tobaggan, this is man babies
@Mantis Tobaggan, Trump supporters died dumb ass.
@Mantis Tobaggan, imagine being this much of a hypocrite. Where was this fear when antifa tried to burn several dozen innocent people alive.
@Mantis Tobaggan, where was your concern for " people dying" when antifa and BLM spent this entire summer beating and murdering random people they found on the streets after dark. The guy they accidentally burned alive inside his own store.
@CocoasBro, this isn't about them bring tjat sh!t on a blm meme
@Mantis Tobaggan, The only people that got hurt that night were trump supporters, and they apparently died from health conditions they had. No random buildings burned. No random people beaten. They broke into the senate floor and took pictures chill the fvck out.
@CocoasBro, Nobody said anything positive about blm wtf are you going on about?
@Mantis Tobaggan, Im pointing out your hypocrisy. Your freaking about about "trumps coup" when what antifa and BLM have been doing this entire summer and for the last 6 years are several levels of mangnitude worse. Your a useful idiot that doesnt understand whats going on.
@CocoasBro, lol, I don't like blm either you are a damn fool. I've said similar sh!t about them and I'm not on the fvcking left. There is no hypocrisy here just you being a dumbass bringing up sh!t that isn't relevant to the conversation because apparently thats all you know how to do
@CocoasBro, me: "man I sure don't like these assholes breaking into places"
you: "Yeah but blm! I smart you dumb!"
I've wasted enough time with your smooth brain so go ahead and say what you want I'm done with this.
@Mantis Tobaggan, imagine being so unself aware. Pick up a book.
@Mantis Tobaggan, They are some really bad Domestic terrorists having a -1 death count and have only damaged what the American taxpayers as a whole pay for.
Good thing people will have nuance on the situation and will say that every Trump supporter isn't like the few that stormed the capital..oh they don't? What a surprise.
@owanobi, are people saying all Trump supporters are like that? That's stupid if so these are clearly some extremists
@owanobi, hey I never said they were good at domestic terrorism.
@Mantis Tobaggan, well you have people in government trying to dox and remove Trump supporters before this even happened so yea. There are also a ton of people that think you are a racist, just for supporting Trump, especially the blue checks on Twitter lol.
This entire situation has me mixed. While I never have condoned political violence of any kind. When people are pushed to their breaking point, this stuff happens. After 4 years of being called Nazi's, racists, so on. It takes a toll, especially with how fvcky this election has been, and with Pence in a sense betraying Trump and his supporters, I am not surprised in the slightest this happened. Although people are calling this a coupé de ta, which is dumb considering none of them had guns. The "coupé" was over once the police brought the guns. The elite are being extremely hyperbolic as expected and will use this opportunity to impose stronger censorship, and stronger means of control. Because of these dumbasses, we are fvcked.
@owanobi, wow, just wow.
@Kareem Abdul Ackbar, yeah lol
@Mantis Tobaggan, depends on who wins. Same as with the independence thing.
@Rowsdower, it’s obvious they weren’t. Antifa wear masks. Even if you wanted to go down the conspiracy theorist path of suggesting antifa pretended, en masse, with zero exceptions, to all pretend to be Trump supporters, no, they were not antifa.
@CocoasBro, what BLM did this past summer is not relevant to what is going on in the capitol for two reasons.
Firstly, everyone sane who is condemning the actions in the capitol condemned the actions in Portland, New York, and elsewhere. No one is saying that this is not okay but that was.
Secondly, the motivation between the two groups is completely different. BLM were reacting to what they saw as injustice in society. Sort of a “I can’t tolerate these societal problems that aren’t being addressed, so I’m going to make trouble to force people to pay attention”. This was made worse by thugs and looters who took the opportunity to do what they wanted.
Meanwhile, these people in the Capitol are reacting to what they think was a rigged election, with no supporting evidence (and plenty of evidence to the contrary), and have decided to disregard the results of a demographic election. More of a “we are going to get our way, or else”. This is made worse by the fact that Trump is the one
telling them that the election was stolen and that action is required.
That’s the big difference. What BLM did was bad. What the Trump supporters are doing in the capitol is substantially worse. BLM attacked America and Americans. These people are attacking the very institutions of their own democracy, and that path leads to the destruction of the country.
@owanobi, I was actually saying that to my dad while we watched the news. I said to him, “this is the absolute worst thing for Trump supporter’s PR”.
But really, at this point, I don’t see how anyone sane can continue to support him. There’s just zero practical upside to it.
@Kareem Abdul Ackbar, wow what? Not ok with my nuance on the situation? No surprise there.
@I Are Lebo, while I somewhat agree, he was still trying to do good things like ending long-standing wars. Too bad that kind of stuff isn't important to anyone anymore, they would rather ree at orange man, than work together to fix actual problems with our current system. To me we just need to end this whole 'party' system, just remove party affiliation from the ballot, that way people actually have to do research to know who they want to vote for, not just D or R.
@owanobi, really truly, I don’t see that he actually did all that much in regards towards ending any wars. His actions in Israel have been nothing more than a PR stunt that may actually be making things worse. His actions in North Korea changed absolutely nothing. His actions in Russia may have been detrimental to US interests. His actions in the Middle East outside Israel have not helped.
Other than make speeches and promises he never had the ability to make good on, what has he really accomplished?
All of his economic gains were undone and more so by his poor Covid response, he failed to build any meaningful wall, he set back foreign relations with practically every other country on earth, and the majority of things he did in office was undoing anything he could of Obama’s.
In truth, the best thing I can say about Trump’s presidency is that at least he didn’t start any wars.
@owanobi, but I absolutely agree that the two party system needs to go. Both the Republican and Democrat parties need to be disbanded, with three to five new parties being formed to take their places.
@I Are Lebo, Well he was trying to bring soldiers home but it also doesn't help that they lied about how many people were deployed, thus sabotaging his efforts but Trump economic policy did help with the economy post Obama. Sure covid happened nd ruined the economy but you can't blame that on Trump like people really want to. But he is the first president in what, 60+ years to not start a new war.
My main gripe with Trump is how he speaks to the American people, and how much of an ego he has.
@Webbed Foot, you are being manipulated and lied to. For years we have watched in dismay as fox and breitbart have poisoned political discourse. Enough.
The only place anyone worldwide is talking about equivalency like that is on right wing media in America. It is time to take a long hard look at the people telling you these things. Are they trustworthy? Whose interests do they serve? I think it's fairly clear to everyone applying for bail this morning that citizens remain responsible for thier behaviour no matter thier beliefs, no matter who told them to do it.
A whole load of people are going to jail because they have been used by the republican establishment to remain in power.
Don't be cannon fodder. Challenge your own leaders to be better.
@Mantis Tobaggan, I don't think you were wrong in thinking the #resist people were drama queens. They were, and Trump used that to his advantage. All he needed to do is send a tweet and the left would lose their minds, and the right would have the knee jerk reaction to defend him. Everyone was so concerned on going to war over the smallest orange man bad headline and joke, nobody was listening when the boy really saw the wolf.
@I Are Lebo, lol no evidence. Hundreds of thousands of votes in the middle of the night after they had officiallysaid theh would stop counting. Vote watchers kicked out in the middle of the night. Swing states with hundreds of thousands of more votes then actrual people. If you dont question any of that your just downright dishonest.And when asked for an investigation they are given the middle finger.
But thats niether here nor there. Were comparing riots here. And BLM and antifa went after innocent citizens on a near daily basis. Property damage in the hundreds of millions on a daily basis. They even set up autonomous zones and not a peep of condemnation from hypocrites like you. Oh but trump supporters break into a government building and take a few pictures and suddenly we need to call in the national gaurd. Theres a double standard here.
@I Are Lebo, lol Trump supporters broke into a building and took pictures how is that worse than BLM and antifa Burning a human alive, attacking a federal building with molotov and laser pointers permanently blinding dozens of officers, litterally tries to start the building on fire knowing full well dozens of federal officers are in there and would be burned alive. Millions of dollars of property damage. attacking random people in the street they find.
@CocoasBro, a capitol police officer died from being hit over the head with a fire extinguisher. They brought IEDs into the capitol. Stop acting like this was a peaceful demonstration.
@Spetsnaz , 1. Still more peaceful than the average BLM/ antifa "peaceful protest" litterally IEDs and killing random people is a Leftist near daily at this point.
2. I condemn all violence period. Those involved in violence or illegal activey should be prosecuted. Unlike what happens when BLM/ antifa blow something up or kill someone.
@CocoasBro, alright I’m sure you’re already too far gone to understand this, but I’ll try. here is why there were “vote dumps”; some of the critical states like Michigan, Georgia and Pennsylvania were not allowed by state legislatures to count mail in and early voting ballots before Election Day. PA & GA we’re not allowed by GOP controlled state governments. They knew the early and mail in vote would go left as the president asked people to vote in person, while Biden asked people to vote in the mail. So when the Election Day vote was counted first (as the state government made sure it would) trump had a big lead as those were mostly his voters, but when mail in and early voters came next democrats made up ground. Cities having the highest population density take the longest time to count, and overwhelmingly lean left, as such, trumps lead he made in the first day was chipped away as votes from more Democratic areas came in.
@CocoasBro, lmao you are delusional
@Spetsnaz , and thats why they sent republican vote checkers home..... and said they would stop counting...... and there are hundreds of thousands of more votes than people in those states.
@Spetsnaz , i could litterally spend all day linking you videos of BLM/ antifa blowing sh!t up, killing people and beating people. There is that much evidence.
@CocoasBro, I’m gonna leave it at this, everything you’ve just claimed about the vote is false, and you need to get off parler. Read some news that was written by someone with a degree and who doesn’t have a Qanon profile pic.
@Spetsnaz , LOL you got nothing. Just google the total amount of votes in virginia and then google the amount of people. Lmao I was watching the streams of cnn when this happend bro. Even CNN said they were going to stop counting. We have hundreds of affidavits saying they were told to go home.
@Spetsnaz , If for the sake of argument what i said was true would you say this election is super fishy and deserves to be investigated.
@CocoasBro, lmao, that’s why every judge whose seen these cases has thrown them out for lack of evidence? Most of them trump appointees? Even the USSC, while 3 of its members were trump appointees, all of whom stated there was no case? And I’m the one whose got nothing? Bruh just because you don’t understand how elections or counting work doesn’t make it a conspiracy. I pity you for how disassociated from reality you are.
@Spetsnaz , LMAO you dont understand those lawsuits at all. Those lawsuits were never for vote rigging. Smh Trumps lawsuits were against them changing the rules right before election. Had nothing to do with how suspicious the counting was. Holy sh!t are you un informed. Specifically because prooving election fraud is extremely difficult.
@CocoasBro, I condemned the autonomous zones harshly, and continue to do so. That so many of those BLM rioters were released without charge was a travesty of justice.
However, what you’re saying is nonsense. Where were there hundreds of thousands of votes counted in the middle of the night? Where were vote watchers kicked out? Where is YOUR evidence, because really all you have are baseless accusations. Where were these states with more votes than people?
The investigation into the claim of dead people voting revealed nothing of the sort of levels needed to change the election. Less than a dozen cases of voter fraud were discovered, and they were discovered and discounted. Most of them were also votes FOR Trump, not against him.
You’ve also answered your own accusations. The BLM riots involved people blinding officers and throwing firebombs at people. The DC riots involved significantly less violence. Which is why the police response to the BLM riots was also harsher. But location
and context matters. These assholes in DC attacked the seat of government. The assholes in Portland and Seattle attacked a random suburb. Not the same thing.
Your approach is entirely dishonest. You’re trying to divert attention from what’s currently going on, and that’s exactly the same as the people who responded to the BLM riots by pointing the finger at white supremacists. Pointing to the rioters in DC and going “they’re actually antifa in disguise!” is the level of brain dead conspiracy theory that’s equivalent to thinking that Sandy Hook was a false flag operation and the line of (bad) logic completely discredits your own argument.
The evidence is simply not there for the level of mass conspiracy needed to fake election results like the one we got. Trump lost. It happened, get over it. The election wasn’t stolen.
@CocoasBro, one more thing. I was VERY outspoken against the actions of BLM, and I consider them to be a domestic terror group. Back during the summer, I took a lot of shït for how often I spoke out against them, both on here and on Reddit (as well as irl).
So for you to throw at me that I’m a hypocrite for condemning the DC rioters shows how little you know, and how you’re nothing more than a shït disturber who can’t stand to see his own side behaving despicably, and thus are compelled to shift the focus.
You’re the hypocrite.
@Webbed Foot, this study said over 90% of the BLM protests were peaceful. Ours sure was. The cops even stopped traffic for us to cross roads and took pics with us. We bought them Starbucks.
You're all free to downvote this, but facts don't care about your feelings.
@CocoasBro, wrong, a cop who was assaulted died.
@InsaneWolf, An unruly mob smashing their way in, doing nothing productive, and basically just getting in the way of people trying to do their jobs? Surely that’s politics without the lies to hide what they’re doing?
@Desiderata, Omg best gift ever lol. Hold on ima spam you with links of these "mostly peaceful" protestors beating the fvck out of random people they find. Smh imagine being this retarded.
@Desiderata, mostly peaceful protests. Heres your mostly peaceful protestors hunting people based on race like the racist organization it is you freak.
This is what you support you fvcking disgusting racist freak.
@Desiderata, youtube.com/watch?v=t7vlkbR3Gcs Blm attacking a person with a hammer
@Desiderata, heres them attack a random dude and his dogs like the fvcking animals they are.
@Desiderata, and thats the sh!t that hasnt been censored off the internet by your Orwellian wanna be racist dictators in control in silicone valley. I could litterally go on forever because theres that many videos and examples. and of course none of these people get arrested and charged with anything.
@Spetsnaz , he's going to have to get off parler now that the Google store has banned it and Apple gave the CEO of Parler 24 hours to start getting his shìt together and he refuses.
@CocoasBro, congrats on taking 5% of the protests that weren't peaceful, blowing them out of proportion, and proving me right more.
@Mantis Tobaggan, hes been rallying them for months... even years... sewing the seeds of election fraud (but only fraudulent if he looses).
@CocoasBro, Trump supporters killed Brian Sicknick
@Desiderata, congrates the one trump protest the one trump rally that turned less than peaceful blown completely out of proportion. while you ignlre the violent riots from the left are nearly every night.
@Hamilton Porter, BLM supporters grabed an autistic kid off the street and facebook streamed themselves torturing him to death.
@CocoasBro, I agree with you that that's wrong. It doesn't mean you have to resort to whataboutisms. You said the only people that were hurt were Trump supporters. That was false.
@Desiderata, Imagine thinking trump supporters rally that ends in 4 deaths is bad but oh BLM and antifa riots that take place every day that almost always end in atleast in someone dying or beaten to near death arnt as bad. Your hypocrisy is fvcking sicking. You need to stop watching CNN and the daily show.
Oh btw i dont have a parlor account. But its also very telling how your in support of internet censorship and authoritarianism in general.
@Hamilton Porter, at the time i said that was the information at hand. Information was still coming out. To paint this riot as anything special or out of the ordinary after over 6 years of near daily far worse riots from these people is a disgusting hypocrisy I cannot condone.
@Desiderata, " blowing them out of proportion" do i need to spam you more links of BLM stomping on some random old persons head.
@CocoasBro, so why not wait until you have the information instead of saying it was just some people taking pictures inside the Capitol? Hypocrisy is condemning one riot but not the other.
@Hamilton Porter, Who said i didnt condemn the riot? And did you guys wait for all the information before condeming trump and saying he instigated it? No you did not. And that info was available before the cloud of war set in.
@Hamilton Porter, The scale is different aswell. It would be like if i only condemned antifa and BLM but then protected ISIS. Trump supporters and right wingers in general hardly ever step out of line and rarely if ever hurt an innocent bystander during their protests. Cant say the same about the left.
@CocoasBro, why would you condemn people who were just at the Capitol taking some pictures? Trump instigated the riot by telling people who believe the election was stolen to go to the Capitol. How could any patriot that believes an election was rigged not perform their civic duty and stop the fraud?
@Hamilton Porter, ahut the fvck up. Hillary and the entire left claimed the 2016 election was illegitimate leading Antifa and BLM to attack and burn countles stores and people do we hold every democratic politician at fault? Every dem propetuates the rediculous lie that black people are discriminated against in the united states should they be held accountable for the near daily property damage and lives lost by those retards? Trump never told them to riot and explicitly told them to stop something democratic politicians never do and in fact dem politicians tacitly support these actions by ordering the police to withdraw so that they can riot and murder without being stopped.
@Hamilton Porter, just another massive double standard you people are completely oblivious to. Just how are you this unself aware?
@CocoasBro, every politician that incites violence should be held at fault. Every traitor to the Union should be as well. Save your whataboutisms.
@CocoasBro, you can waste your time if you want. I'll just keep replying with the study that proves you wrong. :)
@Desiderata, oh no you spamed a debunked study based on arrests. Truly it disprove thousands of videos of antifa and blm killing and beating random people.
@Hamilton Porter, atleast trump told them to stop. Atleast what happend at the capital was widly condemned by the right. Where were you guys when antifa and blm did far worse the entire last four years? Where were these cries of outrage when they burned a human alive in a store which wouldnt of happend if the democratic governors and mayors didnt pull the police back? Where was the outrage during the kavanough building when left wing protestors tried to break down the doors of the senate building and break in. The unjust actions of trump supporters have been condemned yet you refuse to condemn those who do worse on a more regular basis.
@Desiderata, its not like antifa arnt ever charged with anything and the black block is designed around not being able to identify a single actor. Or that dem governors have been pulling cops back so that they may riot with impunity. Therefore not being arrested and counted in the study.
@CocoasBro, what about what about what about...
Where have I been you ask? I've been having similar arguments with your liberal counterparts.
@Hamilton Porter, but but but but you got nothing. You cant escape your own hypocrisy and now your salty ive smacked you around with my dick. You cant come to terms with your own hypocrisy. Not once in this conversation did you condemn the acts of antifa or blm rioting and killing random people. You people make me sick.
@CocoasBro, I did that at the beginning of my second comment to you. "I agree with you that that's wrong." I apologize if I didn't make it clearer. That being said, I didn't start this conversation with you to talk about antifa or blm. My first comment was to correct your false statement that only Trump supporters were hurt.
@Hamilton Porter, I dont believe that merely calling the election rigged and holding a rally is enough justification to say trump incited the violence. Thats a gross and dangerous precident to set.
@Hamilton Porter, its logic like that which is sending us spiraling into a reality out of george orwells worst nightmare.
@CocoasBro, the precedent was set by liberals in 2016 and ensuing actions of antifa, which were wrong. If you agree with me on that but not with what happened at the Capitol, what do you call that?
@CocoasBro, I think you mean George Orwell. He's my favorite author.
@Hamilton Porter, I disagree with any propert damage, deaths and even breaking into the capital aswell as stealing of any sensitive material during the process i disavow. Anyone commiting these acts should be held accountable especially the deaths. But to blame the president for the acts he had nothingg to do with is absurd.
Also i said george orwell.
@CocoasBro, you said james and then edited the comment. I showed it to my friend because I didn't know who you were talking about and he didn't either. Anyway, if Trump believes he was robbed he should not commit to a peaceful transition of power. It sets a dangerous precedent. On the other hand, if he knows he lost a fair election and is willingly lying to his supporters he is instigating violence because it is the civic and moral obligation of every citizen to uphold our democracy. It is far more likely that one man is lying than multiple states, courts, and hundreds of people. Occam's razor says the simplest explanation is oftentimes the likelier one.
@Hamilton Porter, I didnt peg you for a liar, especially about something so weird, and out of left field but whatever.
Also there was so much wrong with what you just said.
1.He has commited to a peaceful transition of power.
2. There is nothing wrong or out of the ordinary for trump to claim fraud. Theres alot of circumstancial and suspicious ongoings in the election.
3. Even if you dont believe in outright vote rigging trump was still cheated of this election by the big tech censoring any negative info about biden, kicking off all his supporters off of social media, and even censoring the president of the united states himself. If you were really a george orwell you would be scared sh!tless and pissed off by that fact alone.
4. Trump has a right to his day in court. This idea that if it looks like one side cheated we just have to sit down and shut up for the sake of the union is a highly toxic one.
@CocoasBro, you're not going to gaslight me about editing your comment. Two people saw it. You should reread my last comment. I don't think you understood it
@Hamilton Porter, "if trump believes he was robbed he should commit to a peaceful transition of power." Translates to. He should shut up for the sake of the union what a toxic and unfair worldview
Also me gaslight you? Nah man go fvck yourself your toxic as fvck im out.
@CocoasBro, "if Trump believes he was robbed he should *NOT* commit to a peaceful transition of power. It sets a dangerous precedent." Maybe you needed to read it a third time.
I suggest you go through our conversation at a later time and then ask yourself who the toxic one was.
@CocoasBro, so, no response is coming, huh? You have no counter so you just run away and ignore anything you can’t push against after going all out?
That’s pretty toxic, dude.
@I Are Lebo, What comment?
@Hamilton Porter, It sets a dangerous precedent to have a violent revolt just because youre pretty sure you were cheated.
@CocoasBro, on that we agree. So how do you hold two opposing views at once where you state that "...to blame the president for the acts he had nothing to do with is absurd" and "It sets a dangerous precedent to have a violent revolt just because you're pretty sure you were cheated." Doublethink?
@Hamilton Porter, Because i can condemn the actions of the rioters and understand that trump didnt tell them to do what they did so bares no responsibility for their autonomous actions?
@CocoasBro, when you say "... you're pretty sure you were cheated" are you referring to the rioters with the "you"? If so, Trump has a well documented track record of filling the rioters heads with misinformation in the previous 2 months leading up to the riot. Trump went on and on about how "the election was stolen." This was not something that was simply thought up by his followers. Trump and his loyalists perpetuated that misinformation. So tell me, if you're a red-blooded American that believes democracy was stolen from you because the people you trust said so, what choice does one have but to revolt?
@Hamilton Porter, Yes qnd he can make those claims all he wants. Just like democrates can espout how trump keeps children in cages and how the police are all secretly plotting against white people without being responsible for the actions of different individuals. He never told them to do what they did they made that decision on their own and its unfair and toxic to expect trump to take responsibility for that. I dont expect AOC to take responsibility for the murders that took place because of her photo op.
@CocoasBro, I dont understand why you continue to draw equivalencies to the left. You can believe that both sides are wrong at the same time about similar things. I don't care what you think about the left. That is a separate conversation. I care what you think about Trump and his role in the riot at the Capitol.
It's cause and effect. Assume you have a daughter. If she were to tell you that a teacher inappropriately touched her, and you confronted the teacher, why are you there? Your daughter did not explicitly tell you to confront the teacher. She simply said something happened. In this case your daughter is the cause and the confrontation is the effect. It would be unreasonable for you to confront the teacher without a cause. Assuming you care about your daughter, she need not explicitly tell you to take action in order for you to do so.
@Hamilton Porter, Thats a very bad equivalent. But it still holds true. I am an individual i make my own decisions based off my beliefs. If i decide to take a bat to the motherfvckers face instead of going to the cops my daughter shouldnt be arrested for my actions.
@CocoasBro, you're still missing the point and maybe that's my fault.
The point is that - assuming you are a sane human being - you would not have taken that action without that information (or cause). Another analogy would be if I told you that I saw your spouse in bed with someone else and you confronted them. Tha confrontation would have arguably not happened if it were not for me.
@Hamilton Porter, ok lets go with that analogy. In that analogy you told a man that someone slept with his wife. That man then went and shoved a cheese grader up that mans ass. Would you say that then YOU should also go to jail for inciting violence simply because you told the man that his wife was having an affair? Because thats sounding like what you believe should happen.
@CocoasBro, there is a difference between legal responsibility and responsibility. That being said, I do think a case could be made against me if:
1) I deliberately lied to the man
2) I told the man to go to his house
3) I told the man to "fight like hell"
Whether or not I am prosecuted would remain to be seen. I don't think that I should simply be excused, though.
The president, however, has different oaths to keep as they relate to his office. I don't know if anyone is suggesting criminal charges should be pursued in his case. It, however, would not surprise me. Violating the oaths to his office and violating the law, though they can sometimes be one and the same, are two separate things.
@Hamilton Porter, so your saying if you were the third party dude you would feel perfectly fine with going to jail? Unbelievable.
1. You didnt lie to the man
2.you didnt tell the man to be violent.
3.you specifically tried to get the man to stop shoving the cheese grater up the other mans ass.
Yes we are talking about criminal charges. Trump is well within his ability, rights and oath of office to organize a protest and rally.
And "Fight like hell" is a normal thing for politicians to say. Quite literally every politican and political group says to " fight for their cause" that doesnt mean they want them to bash open windows. Youre double standard for trump is annoying as all hell. You wouldnt judge any other person by this metric.
@CocoasBro, I'm beginning to think you're not understanding me at least half the time. I never said I "would feel perfectly fine with going to jail." I said a case could be made against me. That's different. And besides that, how I *feel* about it is irrelevant.
1) At no point in the thought experiment did I state that I was telling the truth. All I said was that I told the man his wife was in bed with someone else. The point of that was to express the point that the effect or reaction was caused by me.
2) I need not tell you to be violent. There can be a reasonable expectation from me that what I said to you would elicit some sort of reaction. I'd like to point out that you were the one that jumped to cheese graters and bats.
3) I would certainly tell you to stop if I expected consequences for my role.
Violating his oath of office and violating the law are different things. What makes you think I'm talking about criminal charges?
@CocoasBro, also how do you know I have a "double-standard" for Trump? Based on what? Or are you just projecting the left on to me?
@Hamilton Porter, because the democrats are talking about charges.
1 the premise didnt say he lied either.
2. And that was the whole premise of the thought experiment would you be responsible. Should we hold you accountable.
It is a double standard because trump did nothing out of the ordinary. His rhetoric was completly bland and you think he is responsible merely because he used the word fight in his speech. A word used by every politician in every speech ever throughout human history. That is a double standard. You are holding him to a standard you hold no one else to. Unless your willing to condemn every politician ever for inciting violence.
@Hamilton Porter, " All I said was that I told the man his wife was in bed with someone else. The point of that was to express the point that the effect or reactiom was caused by me" yes thats obvious you still hold no responsibility for what that man then goes on to do. Unless you say " go shove the cheese grater up his ass" you are not responsible. Imagine if we as a society held him responsible for something like that. Merely because you gave him information that could be considered negative, and that he might respond negatively to.
@CocoasBro, the original point of the experiment was to demonstrate cause and effect in a way related to the riot. I'll concede your fair point that I didn't originally state truth or falsehood to the claim. The point of me doing so was to relate it to Trump's allegations of voter fraud.
It is not simply his use of the word "fight." You can claim other politicians have used a similar or the same term, but you cannot claim that the effect was the same. Unless I missed another Capitol insurrection. Anybody else should be held to the same standard if the effects were the same.
@Hamilton Porter, AOC claimed that trump was holding children in cages. She said we needed to fight against this as a result someone attacked a ( i believe it was) a border holding facility people died.
Because of the democrates words about kavanough being a serial rapist leftists attacked the capital aswell banging on the doors in an attempt to get in. They failed no one called it an insurection.
The lefts in general rhetoric around BLM and antifa saying that the nation is a far right white suppremacy nation. And that they are racist against blacks. Saying that they will "fight against white supremacy " has led to the maiming, riots, murders for the last 5 years, aswell as assaults on trump supporters and their rallies as they were considered " white supremacists" aswell as a siege on a federal courthouse where protesters permanently blinded multiple federal officers with laser pens, and tried to burn the courthouse down with the federal officers inside.
@Hamilton Porter, aswell as a half dozen other examples ive forgetten just about every democrate has done far worse than trump and even on several occasions pulling back police and refusing national gaurd from comming in to stop riots and clear " autonomous zone" in one case resulting in a human being burned alive in his liquor store.
Have you just ignored everything ive said up until this point.
@Hamilton Porter, basically all last summer there was not a day that went by that blm and antifa hadnt beaten someone or burned a random building to the ground
@CocoasBro, again with this "but what about the Democrats" line. I hope this helps move our conversation forward:
I HEREBY CONDEMN WHATEVER ACTION COCOASBRO DEEMS CONDEMNABLE BY THE LEFT, ANTIFA, AND BLM. I ALSO CONDEMN ANY ACTION PERFORMED BY THE LEFT, ANTIFA, AND BLM THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH MY CONDEMNATION OF TRUMP.
I suggest you read these following articles if we are to have a fruitful discussion: "Does Trump's speech meet the Brandenburg test?" By Deccan Herald, and "Brandenburg v. Ohio does not protect Trump" by Washington Post. I'm not asking you to agree with the articles, just to try and understand them.
@CocoasBro, “what comment?” I addressed your point and called you out for your hypocrisy. If you don’t want to respond to any of it, that’s fine, but don’t pretend like it’s not even there. That’s cowardly.
@I Are Lebo, dude i dont see any comment on this list that i havent responded to.
@CocoasBro, then you aren’t looking. 3 comments, one of which is maximum characters.
If you don’t wanna respond, don’t respond. But lies like that just reflect poorly on you.
@I Are Lebo, 1. Yes hundreds of thousands of mail in ballots were counted in the dead of night. I know this because i was awake and watched the vote leap.
2.I already told you where vote watchers were kicked out, wisconsin, Georgia, michigan, and north carolina.
3.Georgia currently stands with more votes than people litterally said that by name but youre just gonna ignore that.
4. I never said anythibg about dead people voting.
5. No im trying to put things in perspective im not gonna sit here and pretend the left hasnt been doing the exact same sh!t but worse.
6. Im not even sure why youre comparing me to conspiracy theorists who think it was antifa in disguise thats an unfair comparison and you know it.
7. Antifa and BLM attacked the capital building once already during the kavanough hearing.
8. Well then i apologize for calling you a hypocrite!
Wow look at that i countered and dismantled all your arguments.
@CocoasBro, 1. Where were these votes counted? When? Did the vote actually leap or was it updated as the votes were counted?
2. Where did you get the information about vote watchers being kicked out?
3. Georgie registered 67,000 newly registered voters, which not only were not all Trump voters but also is not more people than live in the state, nor would that have changed the election result if every single one of the newly registered voters had voted for Trump or Biden, as the victory was a few million votes’ difference.
4. The claim that was made about more people voting than state citizens includes votes being tallied from deceased citizens. I included them in the figure.
5. I’ve already addressed how the Capitol attack was worse. Ignoring the context of it doesn’t change it. You’re not putting anything in perspective, you’re shifting the goal posts. In the capitol attack, officers were crushed in doors, beaten to death with fire extinguishers, had lasers shone in their faces,
pretty much most of the things you (rightly) condemned BLM and Antifa for. The difference is where and why, and it’s a significant difference that you have for no reason I can tell been completely ignoring.
6. It’s not an unfair comparison, you’re making claims without evidence or explanation, just unfounded assertion, just like those who are trying to argue that Antifa was secretly behind the Capitol attack. They’re not, nor is there a massive conspiracy to steal the election from Trump.
7. They set up a protest, during which a handful of people made nuisances of themselves and were arrested for it. No property damage, no deaths, no comparison.
Not much of a dismantling.
No, this is PAAAATRIIIICK!
*throws down telephone*
THIS IS SPARTA!!!
@Sexy Homunculus, dang, you beat me to it.
Honestly, I dont trust a thing I read online anymore. Politics have taken over media and no one can be trusted. Im all for throwing this government over and starting from the founding principles.
@microman, agree yet sadly violence must be used unless you wann keep waiting.
Moral equivalency: "Why did you burn down the school?" "Some black kids messed up the playground"
Majority of humans about 100% of them are idiots and they want to let idiots vote for idiots. Its an idiocracy. Since the beginning of time.
@Cuactemoc4919, Humans are animals after all and are controlled by basic instinct, especially in high-stress situations.
@owanobi, human society puts a lot of stress on humans
Leftists when antifa and BLM establish autonomous zones, kill random people they happen to find on streets, burn a human alive while burning and looting random buildings, and deliberately try to set a federal courthouse on fire knowing full well there were dozens of people inside: thats just a peaceful protest man stop overeacting.
Leftists when trump supporters take meme pictures inside the senate building: OMG THIS IS TREASON THIS IS A COUP DE TA! OMG I CANT EVEN RIGHT NOW BAD ORANGE MAN IS TRYING TO BECOME DICTATOR! QUICKLY RALLY THE NATIONAL GAURD AND GO KILL THESE PEOPLE!
@CocoasBro, you really are this stupid, ok, wasn't sure if you were joking or not earlier.
@Mantis Tobaggan, imagine being so propagandized that you didnt know this happend.
@CocoasBro, I know it happened. Blm is it's own issue and has no bearing here.
@Mantis Tobaggan, it absolutely does.
@CocoasBro, two wrongs don’t make a right. The BLM riot and the senate storming where both awful in their own ways. Do you think either are right?
@CocoasBro, come on man you are the one with the propaganda every time.
@totally a girl, I gotta say: I'd much rather have people loot the capitol building than loot the laundromat down the street just trying to make a living.
And I'm not gonna lie and say I didn't grin when I saw all those useless, paid-for politicians cowering under their seats as the people battered their way in.
That's actually american as f*ck.
@totally a girl, What the rioters did was wrong. They should never have broken in. But no one got hurt who didnt want to be involved (as far as i know now anyway) there isnt millions in property damage. As far as im concerned not the biggest deal as far as the norm in 2020 is concerned
@WarBureMon, lol you think that was propaganda how sad.
Lol get wrekt.
Groundskeeper Willie there Is not a Trump supporter.
Just Libs/Dems smashing stuff and trying to frame Trump supporters again.
MSM & RINOs seem to be going along with it.
Same ol’ same ol’.
Edit: Like Cesar Sayoc Altieri (“super Trump & q fan”), Jake Angeli has interesting friends (Michiel Vos) for a “Trump supporter.”
Of course, a “chance encounter”-AP with the guy (actually dressed like Groundskeeper Willie) who would later enter the Capitol Bldg, w/police escort, and into the chamber to once again... interrupt the vote, while Mommy-in-law dashed 1min before they entered.
Much WOW, such luck.