When you need Jesus on the go
@rabid aviator, When you got the wheel but still want a little of Jesus in you
This is super common now. They have this at my church. Not sure I agree with it, but oh well.
@TomPholio, its not like it is any different than any other communion.
@TomPholio, may I ask that you please explain what I'm looking at? Please excuse me for I don't know
@ThreePlusFour, in certain sects of Christianity, members will take a sip of wine and a bite of bread. This is called communion.
It represents Jesus' last supper in which he said (paraphrasing), "This bread is my body, which is broken for you. Take and eat. This wine is my blood, which is spilled for you. Take and drink. And do this in remembrance of me."
The wine and bread have to be blessed first, but the ceremony is a representation of Christ's sacrifice as well as a Christian's devotion to the religion.
@ThreePlusFour, this is simply prepackaged wine and bread
@ThreePlusFour, basically it's a thing most Christian churches do that's called communion (some do it every service, others just ever so often or on special days) which is meant to remind everyone of the sacrifice of Jesus and the last supper where he said something along the lines of "eat this bread. It represents my body that I give for you. drink this wine, it is my blood in the same metaphorical sense." The pastor of the church will usually tell the story quick, then pray while everyone gets some wine (or grape juice in some churches) and a piece of bread (or crackers). So this is just a more convenient way to pass it out when you have a lot of people.
At my church the exact item you drink/eat isn't as important as the sentiment. I can't tell you how many times during it I was working the sound booth and didn't have any so I just used some soda and a donut I grabbed, ha.
@DividedAlliance, really shïtty wine and bread*
@GiantDwarf01, ah. Thank you for explaining it to me!
@GiantDwarf01, except everyone forgets that Jesus wasn't speaking symbolically when he said "Amen I say to you, unless you eat (read "munch" or "gnaw on" in its original meaning) the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you shall not have life within you". He couldn't have meant it more literally. So what protestants call a symbolic act, Catholics call a true act. The bread and wine truly do become the body and blood of Christ (not in a physical sense but in an essential, substantive way. The substance of the bread and wine are transformed into the literal presence of Christ. To Catholics it's literally the "source and summit of the Christian life".
@GiantDwarf01, obviously it's only true when performed by a Catholic Priest, so the silliness you guys do, is just a poor imitation of what Jesus meant and what the Church has been doing for 2000 years. But yeah...
@HammerOfHerertics, Catholics=cannibals ?
@TomPholio, yeah I'm not a fan of this. I'm Catholic. We're the strict ones, so I'm guessing this isn't from a Catholic church.
@HammerOfHerertics, perfect. Thanks. As a Catholic, I approve this message.
@HammerOfHerertics, Shouldn't you be somewhere feeling guilty about something?
@HammerOfHerertics, read the Butter Battle Book by Dr. Seuss. It's a social commentary on whether or not eucharist/communion should be literal or not (there's a word for that, but it's escaping me right now)
@KeKesUHaulFacility , guilt is a good thing. Guilt is to the soul what pain is to the body. A sign that something's going wrong. A well formed conscience is now seen as a bad thing, signs of the time I guess.
@DividedAlliance, ummm no it's not. It's about the Cold War...also even if it were, don't think I need Dr. Seuss to prove or disprove to me what the Christ himself established lol
@HammerOfHerertics, reread it with transubstantiation in mind.
Oh you're right, why bring open mindedness into a religious debate. My apologies.
@DividedAlliance, if what you're suggesting of rereading it with that in mind is that it doesn't matter what exactly we believe we all mean the same, then you're absolutely wrong. It is of critical importance to do as Christ said and not to insert our own bias. It's a slippery slope which can lead to the all-top-tired "all religions point to the same thing through different paths" which is just stupid.
@HammerOfHerertics, and yet some people believe that all religions are stupid and that life is meaningless. Just because someone's opinion differs from yours doesn't automatically make it stupid, but by refusing to listen to them, you're subjecting yourself to ignorance (not in the "idiotic" sense, in the true "lack of knowledge on a particular subject" sense)
@DividedAlliance, lol that seems to be a case in which both extremes are wrong. Would you imagine that. I'm not saying there shouldn't be dialogue and what not. I'm saying that there are certain non negotiable. And the True Presence of Christ is the perfect example. There should be no compromise on such fundamental truths.
@HammerOfHerertics, well we're not Catholic and we believe that anyone can give a prayer of blessing if they mean it which is what the pastor does before we take it so you know there's that. But hey, I respect your opinion though I disagree that it's "silliness" and a "poor imitation".
@GiantDwarf01, well since there's a fundamental disagreement in what the Eucharist actually is, then there's no surprise we disagree on who can consecrate it.
@HammerOfHerertics, I mean, the Last Supper (or Eucharist I suppose) was, and just being completely literal here, a dinner between the disciples and Jesus celebrating the Passover. Then Jesus gave his speech which included the "one of you will betray me" and the part currently in contention "This is my blood/body, eat/drink it". But the Supper itself I think we're pretty much agreed on.
Now for communion - to me, it seems like it's more about the spiritual recognition of said event and what it means and less about the ritual and way of going about it and more about the heart of it. But yeah I can see where you're coming from sorta.
@GiantDwarf01, true what you say about the Last Supper but Christ's references to the Bread of Life go far beyond the Upper Room on that night. It's kind of problematic to say "to me, it seems like it's more about the spiritual recognition" when He spends an entire discourse (John 6:22-59) repeatedly telling people that they must eat (literally munch on it gnaw based off the verbs he's using) so much so that people are repelled because they don't understand, but Jesus does not clarify or change his wording. You know Jesus is being straight up when he says "Amen Amen I say to you", and that's exactly what he begins John 6:53 with. Another good signpost on the teachings of Christ is to look at what the early church and the church father believe. Not one of them disagrees with the True Presence. Not a single one, and that's the very same faith that was passed on to us.
@GiantDwarf01, church fathers*
@HammerOfHerertics, well to point out the verses you mentioned - it seem pretty obvious to me he's talking in a sorta parable way like he has done many times. He starts by saying "do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life" now that's pretty metaphorical I'd say - don't work for earthly things but for Godly things. And if he starts off with a metaphor, I'd say it's fairly reasonable to assume we don't need to literally eat his flesh, but metaphorically it's about accepting Jesus and his teachings and taking it into our lives and living it. He talks about how his flesh and blood are "real food and real drink" now normally when he talks about reality of any kind, he's talking about the spiritual reality. And let's be honest, Jesus loves his parables, it's pretty much the only way he really taught to people ha.
As to your agreement of the early churches and such (to be continued...)
@HammerOfHerertics, well even in the old days there were many churches, and even in the same denominations leaders would disagree about some stuff. And, honestly, as much as it sucks, the old churches did mess up with stuff. Withholding the bible, the Crusades, using their position for power and wealth, and a few other things. There's many good things of course, but they weren't perfect.
@HammerOfHerertics, also there's nowhere I can see where it says to munch or gnaw at it, just eat and drink. And I went to the classic KJV to double check, and it calls it "meat" and not bread in some places, so yeah. Burgers for communion? Regardless you do you and I'll probably see ya in heaven regardless
@GiantDwarf01, in the first days and up to the early second millennia (1000s or so) there was one and only one Church that spoke with one voice. Disagreements were handled with councils and decisions were respected as inspired by the Holy Spirit. At no point before that time was there any serious discussion about the True Presence. It was taken for granted outside of a few heretical movements which were quickly corrected. Even after the East West schism, very little differences arose with regards to the Eucharist. It's was only during the Protestant reformation that people felt they could change core fundamental doctrines of Theology (which is impossible as God and his revelation are unchanging). Referring to your interpretation of scripture, again, I will take the authority of the Church which has held the position for 2000 years of scriptural study and contemplation, over yours. I'm sure God did not intend each of us to make our own interpretations of the Bible.
@GiantDwarf01, I'm not saying not to read scripture, I'm saying to read with a mind amenable to the exegesis that has been done by people much wiser than us for 2000 years. Taken as a whole there is very little doubt as to what Christ meant, until of course Luther and his band of poorly inspired friends threw a wrench in it all.
@TomPholio, that's actually kinda cool. I wish mine did that. But yeah I can see your point
@HammerOfHerertics, sure but here's some interesting facts about said verses - they're probably not as connected as you'd think. The one in John is right after he fed a ton of people with bread and fish, and after he was getting annoyed that everyone was just following him to get more food and such. So he whipped out his "my body is the bread" speech as a metaphor to not search after earthly things and focus on God. Later, during the last supper he used a similar metaphor though this time supplementing with actual bread and wine. For further things to think about - in ancient Hebrew the word "eat" also meant consume, as in "consume my teachings". So you know, context is important. And as to our own interpretations - here's the important part, Jesus came, he died, he rose again, we can too if we follow him. The Bible is a conversation to us from God basically. Different things resonate with different people. In the end, as long as we do our best and follow Him, it's all good.
@GiantDwarf01, again, I'll point you to 2000 years of Catholic theology from the wisest philosophers/theologians - St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Iraneus, St. Augustine, etc. plus countless Eucharistic miracles - which disagree with you (as opposed to 600 years of loosely connected Protestant theology, or worse yet a few years of your own interpretation). I agree you got the gist of the "important part" but if you really think about it, wouldn't the Eucharist if it were true be THE MOST important part, since it's literally Jesus?
@HammerOfHerertics, and again I'll refer to the fact that there has been more than just Catholic theology in the 2000 years. And for every philosopher that's Catholic there's at least one from other denominations so... And I think the Last Supper is certainly important and did happen. I just don't agree on how we act on it. I do communion too, we do the prayer, we do the same general stuff, the difference is that we don't focus on the bread and wine, we focus on the dude and the event.
@GiantDwarf01, correct. But for the first 1000 years it was. And was closer to the events and was actually present at them, which other denominations can't say (in fact there were no denominations, it was THE church). Trust me you'll find no better philosopher in the world than Thomas Aqunias or Augustine. Last thing I'll say is, for us, the bread and the wine IS the dude and the event.
@HammerOfHerertics, and to be honest that's on of the reasons I don't like that theological viewpoint. But hey, this was a very interesting discussion and I'll see ya around perhaps.
@GiantDwarf01, theology is the only way to not have a religion of pure feelings. A consistent set of infinite unchangeable truths revealed by God.
@HammerOfHerertics, sure, I just don't think that that theology is the one revealed by God.
@GiantDwarf01, makes sense. Hopefully one day ya do ;) But honestly, thanks for the convo!
@HammerOfHerertics, ha yeah. And hopefully one day you will too. Peace out.
@GiantDwarf01, can guarantee that won't happen haha
@HammerOfHerertics, ha well I suppose we can agree on that then
@TomPholio, do you see what you started? 😂
@TomPholio, 7hrs later and a long scroll past religious debate...I think the reason it's common now is for sanitary reasons. Could be wrong.
@libertarianlife, Funny you mention that! The Romans classified early Christians as cannibalistic, atheistic cultists. In fact, most Christians were crucified or similar for being atheists, not rebels or members of the wrong religion. The Romans only recognised their own religion and Judaism as valid religions. To get back to your question, yeah Catholics do essentially believe they're performing acts of cannibalism. I should point out though that they only believe Jesus' flesh and blood, which was freely given, is fair game. No one else's flesh will do, so don't worry about getting eaten yourself. It's an essential part of Catholicism, and is part of their understanding of Jesus' role as both perfect priest and sacrifice. They firmly believe Jesus was deadly serious about eating his flesh and drinking blood as being the only path to salvation. I'd also be remiss if I forgot to say that there's more to Catholicism than what I said, so don't let this be your experience with it!
@DividedAlliance, in other news, apparently Christianity promotes underage drinking
@Prince super Vegeta , lolol take a shot for Jesus!
@GiantDwarf01, that would make my life easier. I'm Catholic so the priest blesses it all then it's distributed, but I run the projectors and sound up in the choir loft, and if it's just me and the organist they often forget to bring it up. For context if anyone needs it, in Catholicism, you have to receive communion at church every Sunday, so it felt weird at first, but I figure Jesus won't mind since I'm helping his peeps read the music lol
@nate930, it reduces the spread of hems though, so while you may not like it, it does have purpose.
@CubeKnot, um where did you get the insanity about Catholics believing we're cannibals? No claim is made that the bread and wine physically (i.e. Chemicals and atoms) change to those of blood. The claim is even deeper, the substance of the things changes not the physical aspects. So since it's physically not flesh and blood then no cannibalism takes place.
@InevitableFishmonger, you have projectors at Mass? Lol
@HammerOfHerertics, Yep! We put up announcements before mass, and we sometimes use lyric videos for processional and recessional hymns. Then we put up the songs and prayers, and images if Father wants em for his homily.
@HammerOfHerertics, I'm sorry to have made myself unclear. If you want to be highly specific, sure, Catholics are not legally cannibals, nor do they participate in the barbaric acts normally associated with cannibalism. However, reread what you have said. That is cannibalistic nature, the consumption, spiritual or otherwise, of human flesh. I am a Catholic, something that was probably obvious given my knowledge about the history. I understand that we are not your every day cannibals, but seriously, we eat the flesh and blood of our savior every week. You may not like the connotations associated therein, you may dislike my naked admittance of such fact, but that doesn't prove me wrong. I'll say it again so as to be as painfully clear as possible. No, I do not admit either myself or Catholics as a whole to being cannibals in the sense that they would eat substances that could be physically shown come from humans. I'm sorry that's what you got from my first comment, and I hope this helps.
@CubeKnot, that's precisely where you're wrong. The distinction between physical and substantial is exactly where the cannibal accusation breaks down. It was not obvious you're Catholic as no true Catholic would believe that and no good Catholic education would describe it as such. Again, in substance the bread and wine become the body and blood. In physical/material realms the bread and wine remain (i.e. Drinking too much would make you intoxicated, etc.)
@InevitableFishmonger, all priests I've been with have decided against PowerPoint slides for their homilies but alright hahaha
@CubeKnot, and again it is not a spiritual transformation, it is a substantial one.
@HammerOfHerertics, yeah, we're kinda being pioneers. The Dioseces is trying to encourage other churches to start following our lead
@HammerOfHerertics, I'll not stoop to the level of "no true Catholic would do/think X" but there's some things we need to set straight here: firstly, I do not mean cannibalism in the ordinary sense. You have failed to catch my meaning the first two times so I will say it again: Catholics are not ordinary cannibals. We do not eat substances that physically appear to be human flesh, nor do they believe themselves to be cannibals in the traditional sense. I sincerely hope you have caught on now, I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it inside the limits of a comment. Secondly Catholicism (and Christianity as a whole) is not a "pretty" or "easy" religion. You seem to think that we as humans are somehow separately spiritual and physical, as if our souls are not connected to our bodies in any way. I confess to you that this stance is not in Catholic teaching: as living humans we are both at the same time, not souls wearing flesh suits. [Continued]
@HammerOfHerertics, [Second part] therefore, the things we do as spiritual entities are the same as the things we do as physical entities. The flesh we eat and blood we drink every Sunday is not a joke, Catholics take it very seriously as flesh and blood. I fully understand your point about the accidental features of wine and bread not going away but this is not what I'm getting at. I'm pointing out the fact that something did change, and it should not be ignored. We are cannibals in that sense, what we eat is ultimately flesh and blood to our souls. We are "spiritually" cannibals in the same way sin is "spiritual", that is, it affects us both spirit and body. This shouldn't be terribly surprising, Jesus absolutely had to suffer excruciating pain with His physical body, which is made clear during His prayers at the Mount of Olives the night before his crucifixion. Jesus graphically demonstrated to us then and less so in other places that the body and soul are tied. [Continued]
@InevitableFishmonger, [Third part] Honestly though, I agree, it was a bit much for me to just claim "cannibalism" with few qualifiers, but the comment system is restrictive and I was a bit excited to share some history about early Christians. What I said about the Romans was true, but they were wrong about our purpose and method, and misunderstood the whole point of it. I even implored any reader to look into it more. Alas, I have failed in totality, apparently. I hope I can apologise to at least you for the misunderstandings I've caused, and I wish to bury the hatchet with you if I could be so bold. Really, I desire your forgiveness more than anything here. I don't care about appearing to be right, I only care about resolving my mistake. Can you forgive me?
@CubeKnot, dude. There's nothing more Catholic than the absolute emphasis on the Body and the Soul being one, you don't have to explain it to me. I don't know where you got that I believe them to be separate from my explanation of what cannibalism is and is not. And I guarantee you it IS a catholic teaching. But where you go wrong is equating physical and spiritual and applying the same terminology to it. Like you say the comments are restrictive so I'm done going in circles here. And there are absolutely things that make you a True Catholic vs. a Catholic by name only (mainly what you believe in relation to the doctrinal teachings of the Church). Don't pretend to be a theologian when you clearly are not.
@HammerOfHerertics, well, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. I don't think I ever actually claimed to be a priest or deacon or any other member as such, but no matter. I've no intention to further this as well. Fare well, may God bless you.
@CubeKnot, lol I never claimed you were clergy. Anyone can no theology, not just a priest.
ahem. Goodness gracious. I come back after a few days to see a thread like this? I just meant I feel like prepackaging feels cheap and stands in contrast to a meaningful ceremony. Like everyone knows communion wasn't "efficient." That never was the point.
This pic has the most original Title/description ever
@A pet named Steve, this guy knows what he's doing.
I wouldn't know I can't step in a church without catching on fire
Jesus died for your convenience.
My old church has been doing this for like the last 20 years. Kinda preferred it to sharing a cup from various people, no offense intended!
@Stag Partier, of course, it's supposed to be a shared meal...
@Toad, does it have to be shared? I figured as long as it's blessed by the priest in the usual way it'd be fine.
Think of having shared the wine cup with everyone in my childhood is giving me the heebie jeebies. I'd rather have mine individually packaged.
Looks like this is going out in mass
Get it? In mass and it's being MASS produced?! :D
Someone please tell me I'm funny... *cries*
Kinda reminds me of an old asylum when the patients line up for the "daily meds".
I'd probably crack this open and yell out: "THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!" as I whip the container directly at someone's face.
Make a win sandwhich with it, I heard it hits the G spot
(Unloaders name for reference)
@Hairdryer, *Grammar Nazi gets TRIGGERED*
@GENERIC USERNAME 69, I know unloader? Win instead of wine? Ohhhh what was I thinking, I can't pull off a top comment to save my life!
@Hairdryer, I saw that too and was wondering what exactly a G spot sandwich tastes like
@ TouchMyCatEars, "your mom"
@GENERIC USERNAME 69, well, she passed away when I was younger and it still hurts to think of her so I'm gonna go cry now
@ TouchMyCatEars, oh shít I don't know if you're serious or not I'm so sorry
@GENERIC USERNAME 69, I was serious, but you didn't know about it so it's alright.
I need to get on my knees to Pleeeease Jesus!
I want his salvation all over my face!
You know what they say...
One a day keeps the devil away
*scrolling quickly... "Boy that's a weird looking ring pop"