Many Christians were the first scientists which include Sir Isaac Newton so I don't know what this is really getting at
@Polaroid, that awkward moment when Christianity shaped almost everything in the modern world including the things people try to attack it with. 😏
@Polaroid, they are also the ones that impeded on any science that dismantled their religion, like dismissing the Sun centered solar system for the earth centered. They're also responsible for many deaths of innocent civilians. Kinda like the Nazis.
@The Pun Shielder, yes I'm quite aware of Galileo Galilei and his infamous controversy with the Christian church. Despite his scientific achievement he was in fact a devout Christian who saw not a divorce of religion and science but only a healthy marriage: "God is known by nature in his works, and by doctrine in his revealed word."
Just because someone fights with the church, does not mean they do not believe in science. Science was "invented" because these early scientists wanted to know more about God and his creation
@Polaroid, God is also an invention, however, it is of fiction. Science is what we use to gain factual knowledge of the universe. And I must point out, that way of thinking was way back when atheists get the death penalty. Trust me, I can debate this all day.
@The Pun Shielder, oh you can be an atheist all you want dude nobody is telling you you can't
@Polaroid, not denying you your religion. Believe in it if you want. Typical religious tactic might I add.
@The Pun Shielder, it sounds more like you just really want to argue considering the way you're wording your phrases
@Polaroid, we started this as a debate about the ties of religion and science, which in all honesty, science would still be used if religion never was. You were the one to drag it into accusing me of telling you you can't have faith. I never said that. But hey, I'm the atheist, so I'm the bad guy right?
@The Pun Shielder, bye!
@The Pun Shielder, you're giving atheists a bad name here lol. Calm down :p
@Kayda, how so? I simply argued my side. They diverted the conversation and made it seem like I was attacking their religion, which I was not. Anyways I'm going to bed, almost 2 am.
@Kayda, thanks for being a cool cat Kayda <3
@Polaroid, heh no worries! There's extremists in every path. It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you use it to be a better person :)
@Kayda, don't tell me what to do you little shjt
@Polaroid, I wouldn’t really say many Christians were the first scientist since the practice of studying the world in an analytical manner predates Christianity. Even if you start with Plato and the other natural philosophers who were really the first ones to study science as a way to look into the world of the gods they were around 400 years before Christ.
I think a good example of what this comic is talking about is a quote that is attributed to the French physicist Laplace. While talking to Napoleon after he wrote his book on planetary motion Napoleon essentially said that it was a good book but questioned why Laplace didn’t talk about God in his book. To which Laplace allegedly replied “I had no need for that hypothesis”.
@Hugh Mungus Wut, now that's a good point. Very well said my good man.
@The Pun Shielder, in all fairness to the church, Copernicus’s heliocentric model still had just as much error as the previous geocentric model. The main difference was that the math required was much simpler. It wasn’t for another 100 years until Kepler came up with his laws of planetary motion where it became the obviously better model.
@Polaroid, a common misconception perpetuated by a few militant atheists in the late nineteenth century that helped pave the way for the convenient, if half-baked, modern moral relativism.
Comics like this one are truly funny when you figure out the author is behaving exactly in the manner they're attempting to condemn.
@The Pun Shielder, you're not a very good historian, are you?
@DatBigEasySpiesy, haha, nice, someone a paid attention in history.
@Polaroid, @The Pun Shielder, I'm telling you that you shouldn't. I'm also telling you that you shouldn't be a Christian. Nobody knows if there is or isn't a God. The Bible was written hundreds of years after the supposed death of Christ and has been modified through endless translations with almost no existing autographs. The only only autographs being the dead sea scrolls and even then the vast majority have been forgeries. None of the authentic scrolls mention Jesus. As for the atheist, lack of evidence of a God doesn't mean that there isn't one. Absence of evidence doesn't disprove a theory, you could just as easily be missing evidence or not attributing it to the proper or full extent of the source.
@ALargeRacoon, essentially claiming to KNOW whether there is or isn't a God is arrogant. You can hope that either the existence/non-exitance is true, but you can't know for certain. I argue that the only thing to do is to suspend judgement. (Sorry if I came off as an âsshole in that first comment.)
@ALargeRacoon, no worries. I get your point and it's not one I haven't heard before
@The Pun Shielder, and people like that are called Pharisees. They use the faith as a source of power and destroy what threatens that power. There is a story in the Bible about this. You may have heard about it.
@The Pun Shielder, Dude, many people would consider me a militant atheist, but you're definitely coming off as a bit of an arsehole here. Either have a reasonable discussion without turning it into a flame war or let them believe what they want to believe. But if you want to argue with DatBigEasySpiesy being arrogant go ahead, you have my support 😛
@LivingAngryCheese, I didn't do anything to turn it into a flame war. I even said they can believe in their religion if they wanted.
@ALargeRacoon, true, there is no evidence to disprove a God. However there is still no proof of said God. Either way, I have high doubts the Christian God exists, as I say this as an ex-christian myself.
@The Pun Shielder, I mean even as far as I'm concerned, the Christian God could be real, but he's just like "Ah, but you weren't Catholic. You Protestants twisted my words and you believed the wrong stuff. Fvck you, enjoy hell." And vice versa, you can even say the same thing only inter religions with a single God and all sorts of things along these lines. So, I just withhold any judgements, and when I die, if there's even an afterlife, I'd just make the case that I had no way of being certain and hope that God is merciful. Or you die, there's no God, and that's it you don't exist and nothing matters beyond that point.
@ALargeRacoon, see, I don't believe in the Christian God for one big reason. For being an omnipresent 'loving' God, his range of influence for hundreds upon thousands of years was in the middle east. He left all the natives in the Americas alone, to end up in hell, and the Southern parts of Africa as well. Not to mention the leaps of immoral things he does in the bible; encouraging slavery, slaughtering millions of innocents, allowing death penalty for working on a Sunday, and promoting the idea that women are to be obedient to men with no right to argue her husband. This is why I left the religion. But even after what I said, I'll support freedom of religion.
@Polaroid, @The Pun Shielder, @ALargeRacoon, Ok so this got to the point it's at because one of pun shielder's comment was way misinterpreted. After that some notes, religion and science as we know it are unarguably linked that's just fact as we know it. Racoon is basically right in all regards with what they've said. Polaroid you kinda caused the mess here from the misinterpretation but I agree with what you've said in your points. Also just to add another point in here because it seemed like people were accepting science as hard facts, but that's wrong. Science itself is man made and man's way of interpreting what they don't know. We have zero idea if our "facts" are right. Humans haven't been right about our world once since the dawn of time because every few hundred years someone else comes along and changes how we think about the world. Science is imperfect and flawed and even proven theories with evidence are still just that. Not fact. We know nothing about almost everything.
@Polaroid, Most of the early european scientists were christian because most people in europe at the time were christian.
@Polaroid, if you look at this picture with current times as a context, it explains itself. I'm almost certain that was the intended purpose. Very few people are gonna reach back to the 1500's for reference.
@ALargeRacoon, you've basically built the theological argument for the need for faith, and the biggest stumbling block for most people. Bluntly speaking, faith requires humility, the unpleasant and awkward kind, and this makes a lot of smart people very uncomfortable. When ever you make smart people uncomfortable, they get hostile and defensive and ultimately, embarrassed.
@Hot Coffee, I can see your argument. I'd want to know how you specifically define what faith is. But for what you've said thus far, I constructed an argument for faith in what though? After death, I'm just as ready to accept a true and eternal death, so I wouldn't say it's faith in God.
@ALargeRacoon, a good informal definition of faith is accepting something as true which cannot be proven or disproven. Faith occurs when you settle for an explanation as much as when you struggle to find an answer. Your expectation of non-existence when you die is as much an act of faith as someone's religious based expectation of an afterlife.
The soul is posited to exist beyond the mundane world, and by definition, cannot be measured by physical means. This removes it from the purview of science. This is what draws scorn from some people, but the irony is in the necessary faith the scoffers hold to that the soul does not exist. Without faith, the only intellectually honest position is agnostic, a simple 'maybe', because we cannot know one way or another until we die.
It is also this intrinsic separation of faith and science that allows people who ardently believe in a God to exercise proficient scientific acumen.
@Hot Coffee, I wouldn't say I have an expectation of non-existence when I die though. I'd hold more to radical skepticism than anything as far as a worldview goes. So yes, I'm strongly agnostic to virtually everything.
@ALargeRacoon, then I applaud you, most fall short of such intellectual rigor, as evidenced by the knee jerk down votes of my comments. Most of the people down voting me today would be lined up to throw stones at Galileo, had they been his contemporaries. The irony is delicious, even if it is lost on them.
@Kayda, extremists? What the fück he was never extreme he lead a debate that's all he did you dumbass
@DatBigEasySpiesy, despite the fact that algebra, modern astronomy, the Pythagorean theorem, and many more topics came about by completely different cultures?
I'd stick my peter in science
@Colombian Sugar, science looking damn well fine today MHMM
I never thought science would be a woman in that way... now I’m really hard for science
I'll fight you science c'mon bich that's my man
nice titties science
I believe it was Paul who said "question everything, but keep what is good."