I'm not trying to be offensive here, just educational, but...
For liberals who don't know, this is exactly how we see it.
@Ajunta Pall, enlighten me if you may... as of what the fvck is going on?
@seeUpee, Arkansas banned transgender treatments under the age of 18.
@seeUpee, it’s making fun of people who are okay with kids wanting to transition to another sex. Usually through hormone blockers but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re starting to advocate for the surgeries as well. It’s fvcking insane, I don’t trust a little kid to make a wise decision on what to eat for dinner let alone a life altering decision that’ll affect them for the rest of their life
@Natural Sarcasm , seriously? That is what this is? Are we all insane? Have we lost our marbles? This is like that whole Pelosi thing that 16 year olds should vote. Maaaaaan these kids need psychological help, not a sex change.
@Ajunta Pall, good to hear there are other people on this app that are sane
@seeUpee, it’s even worse than that as you have some parents that idolize the trans movement and try to force their kids into it. There was a custody battle recently with the father wanting full custody because the mother wanted to put her son on hormone blockers. The kid thought he was a boy in every situation except when the mother was involved because he thought if he didn’t pretend to be a girl it’d make his mom upset. Sadly the father lost the custody battle
@Natural Sarcasm , I can’t... what is happening to this country? I’m glad I live in Tennessee... very conservative
@seeUpee, that happened in Texas.
@Natural Sarcasm , "I want to eat candy for breakfast, ice cream for lunch, and sugar out of the bag for dinner! And I wanna be a girl!"
@seeUpee, what's happening to this country is social media has a financial incentive to set fires. I'm a liberal with very conservative friends, and we can be friends because the truth is most people aren't as crazy as they're portrayed on social media. It would be nice to go back to thoughtful debate instead of doomsaying, but peaceful discussion does not make good clickbait.
@Chief Poundserhard, There’s more of us here than you might first expect. A lot are like me, slumbering lurkers, but we’re starting to wake up
@Ajunta Pall, its exactly what it is. Feeling traits that mermaids stereotypically have means you are a mermaid. Its exactly what they believe.
@Natural Sarcasm , I got a call once for a 13 y/o “girl” bleeding from their newly constructed vagina.
So, yeah... it’s a thing.
@Lord Cthulhu, fitting name for the comment
@seeUpee, I’m very liberal and I even think this is insane. Kids have hard enough time making inconsequential decisions let alone life altering ones.
@Ajunta Pall, and you're wrong. But that's cool. Just don't impose your view on adults
@seeUpee, recognize the downvoters? Lol it’s not surprising they’re pro child abuse right?
@Ajunta Pall, since u have to be at least 18 to do everything it makes sense doesn’t it
@Ajunta Pall, one of those statements must be taken seriously and it happens to be the most important one
@Natural Sarcasm , that is exactly what they are! Let’s not sugar coat it
And that's the problem. Your view is very narrow and you see a real issue as a joke. The suicide rate for these teens who clearly identify as another gender will now begin to rise again. This decision is not taken lightly by these people and their families. Its taking away rights. Not to mention the amount of bs that is now taken in the bill that will not allow these to be done while kids have insurance. At 18, you've gone through puberty, now feeling STUCK in a body you dont identify with, having no insurance or insurance that doesnt cover hormones like the state insurance would. This is a step backwards and will force TEENAGERS intonation corner with no where to turn under the guise of helping them
@MavHunter, I didn’t laugh at the issue, I laughed at the same group of downvoters I always see. The problem with your argument is that it’s mostly based on emotion and not facts. Otherwise you’d be aware that the suicide rate in the trans community does not change post op. You’d also know that most kids change their minds and learn to accept themselves for who they are without medical intervention.
You’re advocating for a small number of people and don’t care who gets their lives ruined in the process. These treatments are irreversible and your saying impulsive children should make these decisions. I’m not the one with a narrow view
@Natural Sarcasm the rates post OP dont change.
A.) They 100% do. The rates in suicide of teens with access to this and those without access have huge differences. You cant measure something after the effect, youbhave to look at the active situation.
2.) This is not some rampant issue. This small group they are effecting are the only group. It's a small issue that effects a small group. You cant go in and say ok I'm ready. There are ALOT of hoops to jump through.
3.) There is ZERO statistical ACTUAL data on teens and others being happy they were denied options. They learn to accept themselves. What? They learn to accept it because it's their only option that or suicide. Do you see the contradictions in your argument? This is not an impulsive thing. Its is VERY CAREFULLY done and over a long period, and backed by actual medical professionals.
@Ajunta Pall, The slippery slope has always been a real thing, no matter how many people mocked me for mentioning it. I have mixed feelings on being proven right.
@ archiethesailor, "The slippery slope doesn't exist!" Says group hurtling down slope at Mach 2.
@Natural Sarcasm , you're advocating agaisnt the small group this effects and act like its something that is a rampant issue and we need to protect kids when it is only effecting about 2% of the teen youth. This will most likely rise the rates of suicide up. Not by much as once again it's a small group. But one death is one too many. And the bigger issue is by doing this, state and federal medical insurance can no longer cover this in Arkansas. Yet they toted let them get it at 18 yrs of ages and offered no cost backing for this after 18. They effectively took the opportunity and resources to get help away, then gave the right back at 18 but no resources
@Ajunta Pall, as a left-leaning member of the LGBTIQA+ community, I fully see and agree with what you are saying. But the difference is I am willing to let them still express who they are without physically changing their bodies until they are of the age where they have body autonomy. I won’t make them feel like a worthless piece of $hit for not being how everyone wants them to be
@Natural Sarcasm , which then this becomes a talk about national healthcare. And if you're against that it's clear how uneducated your views truly are. Top economists and professionals in their fields have advised how it will only do good, and how it would easily be paid for. Then the idiots like trump and the trumpeters say it shouldn't exist and use false claims from brightbart and prager U. So I'll effectively ask are you against national healthcare? If so, no point in continuing this because we know your actual issue with this and the facts you are clearly ignorant of
@Chifilo, careful now, you might be making too much sense
@Ajunta Pall, no, it was not sex reasignment surgery. The surgery options were never legal to anyone under 18. They outlawed temporary and reversible puberty blockers which can be weaned off with no long term side effects
@jouze, Oh, my bad. I must correct you on the side effects though. They might stunt growth, and let's not forget what happened with Lupron.
@Natural Sarcasm , I want you to know I'm downvoting you because you're being outraged about something that isn't happening. Reassignment surgeries have never been legal for anyone under 18, ever. This has not been a main sticking point for the left and has never been advocated by any doctors or health groups. What this is about is puberty blockers which are not permanent and have entirely reversible effects. The point is to give a child who is questioning time to mature and better understand their gender Identity before making any long term decisions and having to go through permanent changes caused by puberty. If they decide they don't want to when they're older. They can stop the blockers and puberty will pick up where it left off
@jouze, trust me... he isn’t outraged
@Ajunta Pall, earlier iterations of these drugs were obviously far from perfect, but theres better versions now where that outcome is rare, but that risk is obviously always discussed but a far cry of a downside for most of these kids who would rather risk being a little shorter than have permanent changes to their body before they know what they want
@Natural Sarcasm , also you're saying suicide/depression doesn't change post op without providing any sources. There have been many studies on the topic, and some of the older ones have been retracted after it was found they didn't have controls for social acceptance post op and a number of other factors like poverty and quality of life. Modern studies (later that 2012) have largely shown that transitioning with social acceptance drops suicide and depression to those of normal people their durwood et al 2016age. Here are some studies and linksin socially transitioned youth by https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext "mental health and self worth in socially transitioned youth" durwood et al 2016
@Natural Sarcasm ,. https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/134/4/696
young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment
annelou et al 2014
@Natural Sarcasm , https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2
Intervenable factors associated with suicide risk in transgender persons: a respondent driven sampling study in Ontario, Canada
Bauer et al 2015
@Natural Sarcasm , Suicide Protective Factors Among Trans Adults
@jouze, no one cares why you're downvoting. Everyone knows you're an idiot so we just ignore you mostly
@dj evolve fan club, says the guy who hasn't read a single scientific study on the subject. Until you can talk about one of the sources I linked don't act like you know anything about gender transitioning
@Ajunta Pall, I'm mostly liberal and I'm ok with this law. If they truly want to change their bodies, they can wait until they are old enough to understand the consequences.
@Ajunta Pall, if you admit you were wrong about them banning surgery please at least change or add an edit to your original comment about them doing so because that is incorrect
@mayora13, gender reasignemnt surgery has never been legal to anyone under 18. That is a lie. This law was about temporary and reversible puberty blockers
@Natural Sarcasm , it’s usually always the same few idiots that just downvote everything logical I’m sure I’ll see them too as soon as they read this
@MavHunter, statistics show that most children that don’t change sex grow up to be grateful that they didn’t and turn out to usually be gay and happier that they didn’t change when they were children and these “medical experts” have maybe a few years experience studying this because it hasn’t be done till recently and there’s not enough research done on this drugs yet to know about the long term effects of them
@MavHunter, insurance probably doesn’t cover it because it’s an elective procedure and they usually don’t cover those
@Chifilo, what do all those letters stand for theyve adding so many new things to the group that I don’t even know what it means anymore
@Ajunta Pall, I live in Arkansas and never heard about this! I swear, the world could end and I’d be like, what the hell? Why didn’t anyone tell me?
Imagine, cutting up your parts thinking it would improve your mental health, but in reality the doc and surgeons just want to get paid a ton of money and don't give a fvck about your mental health.
Don't tell me I can't be a gay trans mermaid!!!! Reeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#!!!!!!💩!!!!!!!!!!🌈!!!!!!!!!-!!!!🦄!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🐬!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🐔!!!--!!!!!!!!!!👉👌!!!!!!!!!!
I must be in the wrong app. I thought this was funny pics, not political pics.
@riidii, well it’s good you found out now
But but she loves aerial!
I am a liberal, and I am fine with limiting elective sex change surgery below the age of 18. That’s a serious step, hard to undo, and a parent can’t be inside the kid’s head. But there are situations when it will be very beneficial to the child to do so. Also, to the extent an infant is born with both sets of genitalia (hermaphroditism), or the wrong set genetically (I think that happens), however, there should be ready access to corrective medical measures. Perhaps require formal consent of both parents and the kid and the surgeon.
@And Now Hes Dead, gender Reassignment surgery has never been legal to anyone under 18
@And Now Hes Dead, I’m a libretarian and I’m pretty much with you. You can do whatever tf you want when your an adult. It’s your life. But I’m pretty against any hormone therapy or surgery on kids. I saw a study that 3/4 of kids who are trans change their mind so I wouldn’t be willing to let kids take any major steps until theyre an adult. Let them act and socialize how they feel to explore it but nothing that can’t be undone instantly. You wanna wear a dress and do ballet knock yourself out scout. You wanna cut your Dick off you gonna wait til you can pay for it cuz there’s no going back
@jouze, you keep saying that, but with the kind of stuff you people keep pushing for, we’re heading that way real quick. Every time someone makes the slippery slope argument, they get made fun of and then we slip further down the slope.
Gaslighting 101: “Controversial”
Call me crazy, but what gender related treatment a kid gets should be a decision between them, their parents, and the doctor. At no point does the state need to get involved.
@Branth, sounds good, crazy
@Branth, should the state not intervene during cases of child abuse? Because that’s what that is.... oh, and you’re crazy
@Snarfel Burger, It's not child abuse, it's delaying puberty via a medical intervention until the child is old enough to make a decision.
Having a licensed doctor required is enough of a check to make sure this is not abused more than it helps.
At this point, it requires the consent of the child, the parent, and an impartial third party who is trained and licensed - The doctor.
Have you ever known a trans person?
@Branth, Still sounds like child abuse. Just because a doctor does it doesn’t mean it’s not child abuse. The mayo clinic did a study that found that the third leading cause of death in America is medical malpractice and millions of Americans (including myself) see abortion as murder. So again, just because a doctor does it, doesn’t make it okay.
I have known a trans person and I’m sure they would disagree with me, but that doesn’t change my point.
Have you ever known a child?
@Snarfel Burger, of course I have known children.
Medical malpractice being a cause of death is immaterial here - Puberty blockers don't cause death, and allowing a treatment a patient and their parent request is not malpractice - That is conflating a controversial treatment with accidental overdose or leaving medical equipment inside a surgery patient.
And abortion is a different topic entirely.
Do you really trust the government to make decisions about what medical treatment you can or cannot give your children?
@Branth, then you should know that children are irrational, impulsive, emotionally-driven people.
My point about medical malpractice is that doctors aren’t some faultless perfect beings that never get things wrong. You’re appealing to authority by saying “if a doctor signs off on chemically castrating a kid then it’s not abuse”. Besides, doctors are hardly all in agreement on this topic anyway. A lot of the pediatric associations have come out against puberty blockers.
I’m for limited government but that doesn’t mean I think the government has no role. The government SHOULD intervene if people are abusing children.
@Snarfel Burger, Of course children shouldn't be making this decision. That's why it requires signoff from both the parent and the doctor.
If this is really about making sure the right decision is being made, what kind of checks and balances would you want to see before a minor can get puberty blockers?
To clarify - This is not surgical intervention, this is a medication that reduces the hormone spike during puberty to delay the irreversible development of secondary sex characteristics. The results of gender transition are much better later on. If the child, parent, and doctor all agree to not proceed later, they can stop the puberty blockers and puberty will proceed normally - I hear there may be some minor differences, but I think the jury is still out on how much of a difference it makes.
I'm pretty conservative by nature, but my best friend in college was a trans woman. I learned from her about what a difference these things make for trans teens as they become trans adults.
@Branth, There shouldn’t be checks and balances on whether a minor can get puberty blockers. It should be illegal to give a minor puberty blockers. You keep saying it’s for their mental health, but do we know the mental health ramifications for going through puberty after 18 (if it actually did proceed “normally”). Some people have actual diseases that cause this late onset puberty and most of them wouldn’t wish it on their worst enemy. Let alone people inducing this in children on purpose.
Just because this isn’t surgery doesn’t make it not harmful. The medical community has recently been shifting from their proclivity toward over-medicating and over-diagnosing children with attention disorders because of the long-term effects. It seems like common sense that any drug designed to interfere with a child’s natural development (i.e. puberty blockers) would not be healthy.
This shouldn’t be a liberal or conservative issue. It’s child abuse. Just because your best friend benefitted...
@Branth, from puberty blockers, doesn’t make it not child abuse. What if your friend had changed their mind? An anecdote like this shouldn’t be used to justify harming other children.
1) they didn't ban reassignment surgery, they banned hormone treatment. Surgery is incredibly risky even on a full grown adult and is either already illegal in some states or most doctor won't do it bc of the dangers it possesses.
2) You can't even get hormone treatment without going through a year to several years of psychiatric evaluation.
3) Parents KNOW when they're is something wrong/different about their kid. A lot of trans kids suffer from depression or gender dysphoria (which is really hard to understand. The people in my life even struggled to explain it to me but it sounded horrible)
4) I know kids don't have full rights, but you're taking away the right for the parents to decide if that's what they want to go with and THAT'S what should be concerning to everyone.
We don't live in a socialist society where the government controls our healthcare. If the parents/children have taken the correct steps psychiatrically, they should have the right to choose treatment.
I’m sure all these comments will be incredibly well informed and backed up by actual figures and statistics relating to the current research on gender and sexuality!
@SirMajorGeneralTim, most of them are, but I bet you have tons of material talking about how safe it is right?
correct me if I’m wrong;;; but Im 99% sure this isn’t a problem affecting society. I’m sure I haven’t seen a news story saying “ CRISIS- 30 million teens make mistake by using hormone blockers. How could doctors do this.” I would understand the Bill if the problem was widespread; ex: with the opioid crisis—- opioids affect 1/10 families. Trans kids getting hormone blockers 1/100,000. It just seems like a weird;; in conservatives minds they think “millions of teenage boys want to chop their diick off!! And the girls want to staple those dicks to their vaginas!” Jesus Christ.... how about a little nuance.
@Monter408, last I checked, a large portion of trans people regretted their transition
@Monter408, the problem is these parents who are pushing their children towards this lifestyle. I’ve read several stories of parents who are like “my child decided they were a boy or a girl at 5 years old”. Bitch, your kid doesn’t know what it means to be a boy or a girl at that age. It’s a parents responsibility to guide their kids and set them up to have a happy and successful life. Not to confuse them by saying some girls have penises and boys can give birth.
@Monter408, the problem is that its mentally retarded and disprooves itself but it keeps getting more and more popular regardless.
@Monter408, it’s becoming more and more widespread and mainstream. The idea that we shouldn’t address something til it’s affecting millions makes no sense. These hormone blockers aren’t approved by the fda and have had zero long term studies on the affects they might have on children. The odds of giving them terminal cancer later in life is probably pretty high as hormones are are key to our development
@Monter408, unfortunately I don't have one, so I can't blame you for not taking my word for it.
@Monter408, you are advocating physical, mental, and psychological child abuse through genital mutilation, heavy medication to block the body’s natural functions, and telling us it is all about “nuance”?! I don’t care if it is one child, a hundred, or a million. No!
Yet we’re the unreasonable ones...
@Monter408, even if 1 child does this it’s too many because we wouldn’t let a child smoke, drink, or get tattoos so y let them do something like that b4 they’re adults
@bobbylupo, I see @jouze is in favor of letting immature children change their gender. I’m guessing you’d also be fine with turning a child into a dog or a pony or a mermaid or whatever else they feeling like being at any moments notice
All of these comments are insane. You people are missing a bigger issue that this kind of thing is meant to curve or reduce or induce (depending) the puberty of what you want vs what you are given. Afterward, it's much harder, plus insurance issues of 18 an no longer eligible. Regardless of all that, it's a removal of rights. Kinda like how the right cries "TheY wANnA TAKe oUR GunS" except what we want is more laws when trying to get them. No one wants your guns. This isnt a false outcry, it's an actual agression/removal against rights. This will cause an increase in suicide in teens because they will have no options, as well as simply give transphobic and homophobic people a false voice
@MavHunter, rights work a bit differently when you're under 18. You don't have the right to vote. You can't drink. You can't drive. You can't join the military. You can't even be on your own.
@BrenadryI, the reason this is, is because kids are seen as either under developed, or irresponsible (depending on which restriction we're talking about). I'm all for kids expressing themselves if they truly feel this way, up until they can make the changes they need to. It gives them time to think long and hard about if they REALLY want to do it. Again, just because I feel like I knew how to drive a car at age 12 doesn't mean I should even be thought to be allowed to.
@BrenadryI, gender reasignment surgery has never been legal to anyone under 18. And the notion that Trans people regret transition is not supported by modern literature, read the above sources I posted in reply to naturalsarcasm for modern studies on depression suicide and transition
@MavHunter, my 11 year old niece was super sure she was a lesbian. We supported her, and continue our lives as normal. She's 12 now and her lesbian period appears to be over. You can be supportive, and open minded, but you also need to understand that kids are kids and easily influenced by everything around them. Changing their bodies before they actually experience life is wrong. That's my opinion after thinking really hard about it.
@MavHunter, so you’re in favor of a child being able to make such a huge life changing decision that they’re nowhere near mature enough to make
@bobbylupo, I don’t think they’re (or anyone on the left which they may or not be) necessarily “in favor”, it’s more like “why do you care let me do what I want with my body”
@SteveTheAlpaca, because you’re not responsible or mature enough to make those choices till you’re an adult
Well there goes my weekend