Christians don't worship the cross. The cross reminds us of the cost of our sins that Jesus had to pay. He didn't have to do that. But he went to the cross willingly out of love towards us, while we were yet sinners. The cross reminds us of this. It's not worshiped. And even if it was, the very scriptures of omthe faith forbid worshipping anyone or anything but God.
@phalcon , the Christ is back 🙏
@phalcon , I’m not religious or anything, but something I have yet to get a real answer for is, so there’s supposed to be only one god (a god who he himself said is a jealous god) and this god wants us to worship him in order to get into heaven. However Christianity has only been around for a little over 2000 years and began in one specific place on Earth. When modern day form of humanity has been about 300,000 years with our ancient ancestors stretching back to 6 million years. So what does that mean for them? Do they not get to go to heaven because Christianity wasn’t around yet? Or do they get a free pass because they didn’t know about it. If so how’s that fair to the Christians? And even when Christianity began, it was only in Jerusalem. When there was other cultures around the world completely separated from one another believing in their gods. Who’s ancestors been worshiping since the beginning of their culture. Are they sent to hell because of that?
@phalcon , I’m not trying to bash you or Christianity. I’m just curious and fascinated about these things. I’m glad that it brings you peace and brings you community with those around you
@Skeletorr, to answer your question, it ties to how we believe that God is infinitly merciful. While we can not know for sure how he will handle the ignorant (with no possible way of knowing his religion), we trust that he understands their situation. A similar question is raised in regards to the infants who die before they are baptized. We have no idea what his plan are (The poet dante sent them to hell, specifically the circle of limbo, shared with virtuous pagans), but we trusts in his mercy.
@Skeletorr, to answer this question is to delve deep into doctrinal questions. It isn’t answered directly, but there are a few instances of God’s behavior that point to possible answers to your question.
First and foremost is the thief on the cross that is forgiven by Christ as he dies.
Second is the parable of the vineyard owner who hires people throughout the day, right up to closing time and pays everyone the same wage irrespective of the time they worked.
Third, John 3:16
Lastly, the long suffering cycle of Israel’s failure to remain true to God and His repeatedly accepting them back.
These speak of a merciful God that does not require a length of time before He forgives and offers forgiveness freely to all.
Now my opinion: I think that everyone gets one last chance to accept Christ’s forgiveness after they die. Doesn’t matter when or where you die or what you did.
That said, I would still exhort you to seek Christ while you live, your life will be more full and complete.
@Skeletorr, Well see from the Christian stand point it started with the Adam and Eve and went on from there. God has been God the whole time(As has Jesus but the new testament is his actually coming to earth as man and God) and the Jews his chosen people. Christian's believe that Jesus was the savior of the world prophesied in the Old Testament(and making some appearances in his heavenly form such as the 3 being put in the firey furnace and going to Lot with angels in human form in Sodom and Gomorrah). Might not be a good explanation I'm not the best at actually explaining things so sorry if it's not
@Skeletorr, the God in Christianity is the same God of the Torah. The God of Israel. The only difference between Judaism and Christianity is that Christians believe the Messiah already came (Jesus) while Jews believe the Messiah has yet to come. Although the official religion of Judaism wasn’t established until many of thousands of years after mankind came into the picture with the laws of Moses, the nation of Israel still existed and served the God of the Torah (before the Torah/Old Testament was compiled). The God that created man in the first place, back to Adam and Eve. There are only two races in God’s eyes: Jew and Gentile. Before Jesus, only Jews would go to Heaven because they were a sanctified people. Because of the covenant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, they were separated from the rest of the world, which served false Gods and did wicked things in the eyes of God. But Jesus came to fulfill the new covenant. The new convenant is basically summarized as gentiles being able to
@Skeletorr, being able to enter into the blessings of the covenant of Abraham. Jesus came to save the world as the sacrificial passover lamb for the sins of gentiles and jews, so that anyone who believes he is the messiah and trusts in him could also enter the kingdom of Heaven, because Jesus paid their fine. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
@Skeletorr, Asking questions is the first step to understanding. Keep asking questions and remain skeptical. Question everything. Dont just take the cordial flower scented cherry pick responses from your garden variety apologists. Get your answers from a wide variety of sources and come up with your own answers ❤
@csortof , not quite... Jews do believe that, Christ was the promised messiah. Not all of them do however. For example all the books of the new testament where written by Jews.
Christians don't see Christianity as a branch of judiasim, rather moderday judiasim branched off from the truth.
@Skeletorr, thanks for at least being respectful. You don't have to agree, but it's nice when people can be respectful. Lots packed in there.
Well your first mistake is thinking worshipping God is what, gets someone into heaven.
It's about righteousness and unrighteousness.
Got is rightious, and only other rightious beings can be in his presence.
Think of it as if you have a clean garment, and a dirty one.
Will the clean rub off on the dirty? Or the dirty on the clean?
Of course you can never get two clean garments, you just make them all dirty.
Thats why you need something else to make the dirty clean again. With clothes, you need water, and soap...
In the same way, Jesus washes us clean again, by his death, barrial and resurrection.
But it's a, gift that we have to accept, or reject.
Another way to look at, it is, let's say you commit a crime. The punishment is 1,000,000$ does the court care where that million comes from? Or only that it gets paid? Part 1 or 2.....
@Skeletorr, part 2 of 2...
And ya insert a number that's more than you can ever pay...
Thats our sin debt.
The law is only satisfied when the debt is paid off. Jesus offers to pay off that debt for us.
Thats why he'll is justified. We reject someone who is willing to pay it off. And be because we can't pay it off ourselves.
And its also perspective... God doesn't pay off our debt because we worship him... Rather we workship and praise God for paying off a debt, that not only do we not deserve, but also just how high of a cost it was to pay it off.
Thats why worship won't save is... Worship isnt about becoming saved, it's, Becuase we where saved.
@phalcon , Never before on the internet have I seen individuals talk about religion in such a respectful and dilliberative way. Moral and respectful props to everyone on this string
@Skeletorr, not a Christian anymore but growing up the answer was that God judges character over belief. For those with no access to Christian teachings. So people before christ, or people now who live in deep jungles, would only be judged on how they act rather than their acceptance of Christian doctrine. Not a perfect answer, just the one they gave me growing up.
@Skeletorr, okay about those who died before Christ died on the cross, while Jesus was dead for 3 days he went down to where the righteous dead were held, the bosom of Abraham (a temporary place of comfort within sheol (or hades)) and Jesus led those within the bosom of Abraham to heaven. So those who God deemed righteous who died before Christ died aren't lost to Hell.
@Skeletorr, I was taught the concept of the Noble Savage if you lived a virtuous life before Christianity you go to purgatory (I’ve also heard heaven).
@phalcon , at last, an educated internet user... On a lighter note, a comic once said if Jesus was cremated, instead of the touching of four points on the body to signify the cross, Christians would have to do an elaborate panicked pat down of their bodies, with possibly a stop drop and roll at the end.. no offence intended
@phalcon , you obviously knew what I meant tho
@Skeletorr, great question, and the answer is too complex to fully type here. The short answer is that even though they didn’t know Jesus, there has always been a universal standard of morality that has transcended cultures and religions. If one lives to that standard or morality, they will be accepted in heaven. Murderers go where they go regardless of time and culture, and those who love their neighbor, the poor, and honor thy mother and father will be accepted.
@Skeletorr, in short, the commandments of Christ were known before Christ enshrined them.
@phalcon , I feel what you're going for but you minded to add a few caveats like "not all Christians worship the cross" cause some clearly do. Kissing a cross that you keep around your neck as a good luck talisman, is not based in anything Christian or biblical and is not showing your remembrance of His sacrifice. It's just good old school style pagan habits with a coat of Christian paint rubbed on it via the Catholic church
@SirLoveday, let me rephrase that perhaps, christian theology does not instruct Christian's to worship the cross, rather in fact it condemns it. So any "christisn" doing wo is going against their own faith teachings.
@Skeletorr, in the LDS church (yes we’re Christians) we believe that everyone will have an opportunity to learn about the gospel either in this life or in the spirit world (think of it as a pre heaven waiting room). They then can choose accept or reject the gospel. So even those born during in a time or place where the teachings of Christ weren’t available can have the option of choosing to follow him or not.
@Nekozombie, well, it is said that adam and eve isnt historically factual. It is more of a belief and a parable in Christianity. Hardcore Christians do believe that adam and eve was the beginning of humans. In my opinion, no body knows the way of god. I just believe any religion’s main priority is peace and humbleness in life. Even if the scriptures aren’t 100 percent true, i believe in god just because thats what sets me in the path of righteousness. Teaching people humbleness and humility. Any religion is like that. However, you always have people that want to fight about what religion is better or people saying that you are dumb if you believe in God.
Reminds me of the Bill Hicks joke. Says having a cross hanging from your neck is like going up to Jackie Onassis with a sniper rifle necklace and saying, "thinking of Johnny" 🤣🤣
We should honor George Floyd by wearing police officers around our necks
@Polaroid, you mean drug's. Drugs are what killed him
@phalcon , *grabs popcorn and waits*
@Polaroid, that'll be an "oof" from me dog.
@Patamon, yo pass the popcorn! I love a good train wreck
@ThePandaPool , *Sonic voice*: That's no good
@Polaroid, Only way I can imagine that working is a cop wrapping either their arms or legs around the neck while being carried.
And I'm all for hugging, but the later is a bit more for, uh... Lewder scenarios.
One of these things is not like the other