I don't wanna start a war or anything, but can we agree that "Affirmative Action" or "equal opportunity" is basically racism?
@Beatles Fan, yep
@Beatles Fan, basically? I'd say blatantly
@Beatles Fan, definitely
@Beatles Fan, let's play 'look at all the white men who respond'
@Beatles Fan, depends on where you live. Some places need it or people in the minority will never be hired.
@Beatles Fan, Yeah, it only ever helps white women.
@Beatles Fan, I don't want to start anything either, but there's a lot more to this issue than most people realize. Obviously there are flaws with the system, but there are several very powerful arguments in favor of affirmative action based on experimental data that's been collected over many years. I urge you to look up some of these arguments and maybe your mind will change. It happened to me. Also, the beatles are fvcking amazing
@Beatles Fan, equal opportunity is like stuff that isn't bread saying it's gluten free, affirmative action is actually reverse minority racism. The difference is how they function: equal opportunity used to refer to mixed employment during the segregation era like construction and migrant work where the employer didn't bother to keep an "all white image" but the term became unnecessary after segregation was ruled unconstitutional; affirmative action groups were specifically created to give benefits to select groups which makes them discriminatory and as such unconstitutional, but because of the way our courts works we have to challenge them on an individual basis and they often times slip through the cracks of scrutiny.
@Mats Zuccarello, *sigh*
@Beatles Fan, how?
@Beatles Fan, how is it racist?
@Beatles Fan, EEO is way better though cause all it states is NO decision is based on race, where affirmative action supports hiring quotas based around race
@Beatles Fan, Not equal opportunity. I would have never gotten hired in my first job if it wasn't an EOE. My manager, who hired me, absolutely despised me because I was biracial, and would call me and members of my family slurs when talking to my coworkers.
@Beatles Fan, Latino here. Yeah affirmative action is pretty BS. Had a friend (also latina), be hired for a job over this black girl cause she was more qualified (which is the way it should be), and the black girl pulls the race card and says they didn't hire her cause she's black. Employer says: "we don't discriminate by race, she's Latina", and the girl says it doesn't count because her skin is white -_-
Equal opportunity is giving everyone a fair shot at a job, which is pretty redundant to say since it's legally required, but affirmative action basically makes some people feel entitled to receive a job based on their race, and you get clearly underqualified, incompetent workers.
@Kangaroo Jacked, I hope that other girl didn't get the job there.
@The Megaton Bomb, I think the point of AA is that although discrimination in the work force is unconstitutional it's still a impetus hurting the chances of minorities to get work, however it still is a pretty flawed system but better than nothing I guess.
@Quantum Mechanic, Yeah, no. I'm Mexican, most of my family lives in Mexico. Affirmative action is bullshjt. I don't want handouts. If I get a job, I want to get it because of my actions, not because I'm brown. It's racist. You're assuming that because I'm brown, I need your help. I don't.
@CriTiKa1, but if a black person gets the job over you. You shouldn't complain about it being because of their skin. Maybe they were just better than you.
@Beatles Fan, fighting racism with racism
@CriTiKa1, feel ya, I'm Dominican and all my family is in DR, I hate that people feel the need to spoon feed me when I can do things on my own, AA is so bs
@Beatles Fan, absolutely. Glad that I'm not alone in noticing that.
@arcadefire, correct, however when companies have their human resources department say things like "hiring is a bad idea, we need more of " that's just racism.
I.e. There was a human resources guy for Intel a few months back who said that the company should never hire white males or white females.
Or in many universities, affirmative action is actual discrimination against Asians. I'm a college professor, and the college I work at uses affirmative action for undergrad applicants...if you are Asian and applying, you need at least 20% higher SAT, and almost a 4.0 to even be considered.
@talmet, I agree with you if the white man/woman is more qualified then give them the job. But if a black lesbian is better for the position than a white dude, he shouldn't cry "reversed racism" or "white genocide" just because they went with a person of color.
@talmet, which is exactly what I said earlier... Sorry.
@Beatles Fan, yep, if you have no understanding of history, current events, or anything really...
@Quantum Mechanic, I'm white yeah, but most of my friends are mixed races, Hispanic, Black, Asian. And they hate affirmative action too, they would rather get into a university because they were the best option for the school overall not the best option just based on other Hispanics or Black people. It's like oh you did great for a Hispanic guy you can be admitted over all these white people just because your Hispanic. It isn't right to either groups.
@arcadefire, same with the black person claiming racism is the reason why they weren't hired.
Racism is bad, and any false claims are bad.
@arcadefire, Exactly. It should be based on merit. If someone else is better suited for a job than I am then they should get it, whether they're black, white, or brown. As long as they were chosen for their merit and not their skin color.
@Beatles Fan, pretty much
@talmet, it really depends on the company. I used to do hiring for a Walmart store and we just had to make sure we called an equal amount of men and women. We literally took anyone with a pulse that answered their phones and never cared for races. The most difficult part was for people to pass the drug test and/or the background check. That was out of our control.
@Beatles Fan, it is very racist. The government should not get involved with hiring except for specific cases of wrong doings. My bro tried to get a job with both of our best friends place, jack in the box. (We are native american/white. He is hispanic) and each time my bro came to jack in the box the supervisor said the store manager wasn't there, until our friend came in with him. She was the manager, and our friend talked her into getting him a job there. (Which she looked at him and said "i don't hire white people" straight to his face at first) i don't know why my bro still tried working there but she hired him and treated him terribly. He got out of there after a few months. Anyone can argue what they want, every race has racisms. And they all need to calm the fvck down. It's really stupid.
@Beatles Fan, I don't know what either of those are. Wut?
@The Manwhore, I'm pretty sure those days are long done.
@The Megaton Bomb, it's not reverse racism that is not a thing. It is just called racism.
@UmActually, then he's an ass hole but an asshole that is a very small minority.
@BlazingBowman, my sister works for a guy who admits to turning down applicants because they're black. You can try to say that he's in the minority of assholes but the fact of the matter is that where I live that just isn't true. In the town I grew up in one of the most lucrative opportunities for a black man with a high school education is to be a garbage collector.
@The Manwhore, that's actually a very well paying job, I do see your point.
@Kangaroo Jacked, at what point is our country going to be held for the actions of its claim(s)? I ask not due to true natural rights everyone has, but 2/3s swears that any of the four races deserves equal opportunity but makes it a point to separate cultures immediately.
@BlazingBowman, It doesn't matter, without EOE, I would have been denied the job based on race and it would have been completely ok. EOE is important because it prevents discrimination in hiring.
@UmActually, whether or not your claims of discrimination are true or not for the overwhelming majority of the population will hire based on merit, now we have big companies scrambling to hire any black man or any woman. Regardless of their actual ability to do the job. Because let's face it their isn't enough black people for those quotas to meet.
@BlazingBowman, That isn't EOE, that's affirmative action.
@The swirl, the issue in AA, as with many things, is that's it's trying to cure the symptoms and ignoring the cause.
@UmActually, yeah what I was talking about was quotas affirmative action is about education and giving minorities a boost up to help them reach higher education.
@BlazingBowman, it's called rhetorical strategy, look it up.
@The Megaton Bomb, yeah I did and I don't think it means what you think it means.
@BlazingBowman, emphasizing that AA is just as racist as normal racism in a clever way isn't rhetorical strategy? Check again.
@The Megaton Bomb, a rhetorical device is a technique that an author or speaker uses to convey to the reader or listener a meaning with the goal of persuading him or her of considering topics from a different perspective, using sentences designed to encourage or provoke a rational argument from an emotional display of a given perspective or action.
@BlazingBowman, it's a lot less formal than those words make it out to be. And I still met the criteria.
@The Megaton Bomb, okay then teach me cause I couldn't find a simplified version with a quick Google search, plus I was never good at language arts in school. :)
@The Megaton Bomb, In Scotland we have a big movement for equality but it's being done through gender balancing etc. I've commented on this today before. Gender balancing means that committees have representation of gender based on the population ratio but its not equal imo. It's just limiting the places people can apply for due to gender and how's that solving the problem? Better than the people who think women should have a boost in opportunity though, I'm not sexist but even in the push for equality the pushers are trying to come out on top, I just want the best people for a job doing it
@BlazingBowman, it's just an indirect way of saying or emphasizing a point. So puns or ironic statements still count.
@As a matter of fact, well I never meant to debate the merits or downsides of either, just the origins of the words so people aren't bastardizing definition because of the words misuse. Personally I support equal but separate spheres after marriage for reproduction because women are naturally better at child rearing, it's what natural selection molded them to do. At the same time natural selection hasn't molded any human to perform desk job or scientific duties but it has honed men for manual labor (construction, war, etc.). If a woman has no intention of getting married and reproducing in a nuclear family (I'm a guy and I don't), then I have no problem with them perusing whatever career they choose, but if they want to reproduce we owe it to the next generation to be as focused on their development and undistracted by work as possible....
@The Megaton Bomb, Egg and sperm donation is also a thing I'm not against as well as adoption, but whomever adopts need to do the best they can to raise the child, be it mom and dad, mom and mom, or dad and dad which means someone has to give up a career.
Obvious the details are to be worked out by individuals and I don't go around forcing people to quit their jobs because they don't conform the this skeleton of an idea, but if we care about the future it has to be top priority.
@The Megaton Bomb, to me, equal opportunity means you don't exclude anyone because that's what it started as meaning and what it literally means. On the other end, affirmative action literally means going out and selecting (meaning discriminating for) a certain group for whatever, and it functions as such from the start in the 50s (in the US at least). Discrimination is discrimination, but it stops being discrimination once choice is involved without sacrificing end result, and why I choose my approach.
@SmoothAsEggs, I can tell you actually have intelligence while @Beatles Fan sounds like some prissy frat boy/girl who didn't get the job he/she wanted and wants to blame it on affirmative action. This community used to be so smart and insightful, and now it's just filled with idiots.
Why dont we just run on meritocracy? Always hire the most qualified, or as a certain algorithm goes, the first person you interview who is more qualified than all those interviewed before them (makes the right decision an incredible percentage of the time)
Can't tell if it's cuz he's black or because they always lyin.
@Quoth the Revan, both
My problem with people who complain about affirmative action is that they assume the job or position is theirs and assume that affirmative action is stealing from them
@Brickmasta8, my problem with affirmative action is that it is the definition of racism. It favors skin color over actual differences.
Worst meme ever.