History with professor Bean. On August 6th, 1945 the atomic bomb Little Boy was dropped on Hiroshima. Three days later on August 9th, 1945 the atomic bomb Fat Man was dropped on Nagasaki. This is common knowledge, but contrary to what is taught in American schools, the atomic bombs were not what ended the war in the Pacific. The Soviet invasion of Manchuria was what made the Japanese Empire start to negotiate with the Americas. It was thought that if the Japanese negotiated with the Americans then they could keep their emperor and stave off occupation. This would not be possible with the Soviets. The Soviet Union would not negotiate with the Japanese until they had invaded the actual islands. The Soviet accords with Japan would also be harsh, most likely resulting in a Soviet puppet government in Japan, resulting the death of the emperor and mass purges. This was something the Japanese wanted to avoid. So they made peace with the Americans on September 2nd, 1945.
@TheCoolestBean, both bombs made about 30 miles from me at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. They have a museum there with a replica of both bombs. Not as big as you might think
@TheCoolestBean, so we have a little boy and a fat man to thank for anime and hentai?
@Beggar Mugger, unfortunately, yes
@seeUpee, yeah they arent that big, simply because they arent complicated. Little Boy actually had a detonating system that was just a bullet fired on the inside of the bomb that set of the U235 off.
@TheCoolestBean, the ol' good-cop bad-cop routine brought the Japs to the table.
@ORGANIC, you know, that's just about right
@TheCoolestBean, this I believe is an arguable point. How could you presume to know anything other than the situations and potential outcomes these men faced? Can you read the Japanese text the generals would have written in? It was another likely outcome they faced. Saying it’s the reason entirely is saying the whole of the loss of their people to the bombs and to the war itself was unfelt. It’s like literally saying you aren’t worried about the guy who literally just chopped your hand off, still holding the bloodied machete threatening more damage, because someone else is charging you with bayonets fixed... from across a continent and a sea. It’s a pretty big leap to assume. It really depends on who you’re willing to give credit to. Respect to you for knowing more than just the one side though.
@LightskinDarkNig, it is indeed an arguable point, and was hoping someone might bring it up. I enjoy having discussions about the era of WWII, as long as the discussions dont devolve in myself and another insulting each other. While yes, I cannot read the Imperial notes and texts, but many historians have picked them apart over the years. The Soviet invasion was in a probability the most determining factor in the Japanese surrender. The Japanese had a non-aggression pact with the Soviets, but the Soviets themselves were offered a deal by the Americans. Should the Soviet Union declare war on Japan three months after the surrender of Germany, the Soviet Union would reclaim the Kurile Islands and southern Sakhalin, which they had lost in the Russo-Japanese War. A historian by the name of Tsuyoshi Hasegawa writes in his book "Racing the Enemy," “Indeed, Soviet attack, not the Hiroshima bomb, convinced political leaders to end the war.”
@TheCoolestBean, A well read man. My arguments are based on limited actual knowledge just a general understanding and fascination of the lives of much harder men, that hasn’t had time to percolate to more in depth knowledge. I am still learning, I’ll cede here.
@LightskinDarkNig, I'd like to have this conversation again one day, when you have expanded your knowledge on the subject. I think it would be enjoyable.
@TheCoolestBean, I’m sure the meme will get reposted.
@TheCoolestBean, but didn't the emperor kill himself out of dishonor? I could be wrong, but I think that's what happened.
@Not him again, he might have, but in the unconditional surrender there were, well, conditions. They were that the emperor was not to be dethroned and killed and that Japan would not be occupied by a large military force.
@TheCoolestBean, thank you for bringing this up in this way. Every time I’ve made this argument people have flipped out at me for it, and it’s devolved into exactly the kind of argument you mentioned.
It bothers me that some historically illiterate people (mostly Americans) like to boast about America winning the war, when there’s nothing to actually back that up.
Personally, I consider the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to be major war crimes.
@I Are Lebo, I've brought up this argument several time before, and have always gotten downvotes, so I know it's only a matter of time.
Alot of Americans do have that misconception, but for good reason. In schools its taught that the atomic bombs ended the war, because the Americans dropped em. We dont want to tell our children that the Soviet pushed the Japanese to surrender and that the bombs were for show! It's just the way it is, history is written by the winners, and America is almost always the winner.
I don't think that the bombs were war crimes, like any new weapons technology it was used. Machine guns were devastating during WWI, and ended millions of lives, yet they are on the table today. As of a 2015 study an estimated 135,000 have died due to the lasting effects of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. More people died over the 2 and a half month offensive of Operation Overlord, with 425,000 deaths.
@TheCoolestBean, I don’t think it was the destructive nature of the bombs that made them war crimes. After all, Hiroshima was the 6th Japanese city destroyed during WW2. It was the target that I consider deplorable. A LOT of innocents died in nuclear fire.
@I Are Lebo, civilians died on all fronts. In Dresden, a refugee city, in the span of 24 hrs 135,000+ people died, the plus is because refugees were in the city, upping the number exponentially. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are only different because it was one bomb on each city that did the deed.
@TheCoolestBean, also what the pic does not mention was that Germany had already surrendered, which is why we did not bomb them.
@jayne cobb, yeah basically. The rule was Germany first, so if they didn't surrender they would have gotten the big yeetus.
@TheCoolestBean, that’s fair enough, but there’s a difference between collateral damage and the intentional bombing of a nonmilitary target.
@I Are Lebo, oh Dresden was most definitely intentional. Was bombed over a period of three days simply because the allies ran out of cities to bomb. It was labeled a war crime. Every city was specifically targeted and bombed for a reason. WWII was a war of not only battlefields, but of civilian morale.
@TheCoolestBean, indeed. Lots of disgusting things were done, on all sides.
@I Are Lebo, that is something we both can agree on
@Beggar Mugger, now you know where they got all their inspiration for their hentai.
@Beggar Mugger, no but you got gozilla out of it
If it weren't for us you wouldn't have anime... or hentai. You're welcome Japan
If the bomb was ready then the Germans would have gotten it also
@megamanx181x, definitely. The best thing hitler did for Germany was offing himself before things got any worse than they already were
@Dephenistrator, good guy Hitler? Nahh he’s still a piece of shvt
@megamanx181x, yeah he is probably getting a pineapple up his ass for millennia to come
@Dephenistrator, little Nicky!!
@megamanx181x, hell yes! (Pun intended)
@megamanx181x, Sorry but, there is a reason they dropped both bombs on the easily vilified hordes of people that looked nothing like them. Wouldn’t the more prudent message have been a bomb to either continent? Setting the tone for the ensuing power struggle that followed the war (Cold War), which certain influential minds at the decision tables were well aware was about to occur.
@LightskinDarkNig, wut? Quit trying to introduce modern politically correct thinking onto a different generation.
If you think they bombed Japan, for the moronic reasons you listed above, seek help. Your ideology is trumping reason.
@big freedom, to be fair, political propaganda of the era was extremely dehumanizing towards the Japanese. That’s not why they nuked them, but it is partially why the general populace was okay with them being nuked.
@I Are Lebo, sure. war is extremely dehumanizing. It’s hard to fight someone you see as someone just like you. But if “they’re monsters”... which in many ways the Japanese were absolutely monstrous, so we’re the Russians and the Chinese, and the Germans...
@big freedom, I don’t mean that war is just dehumanizing. If you look at the political propaganda of the time, the Germans were the enemy because of their beliefs, but the Japanese were enemies because they were inhuman monsters looking to kill your babies.
Also, up until about 1942, the USA was still allies with Germany, at least unofficially.
@big freedom, dude you should read more my statements are verified, I’d recommend wartime journals, not history books.
@big freedom, you have yet to make an argument based on knowledge. Just some general statements. Got a feeling this may be out of your depth.