To quote Marcus Aurelius: "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
@Michael Klump, as a Christian I agree with this 100%
@Magickarp, look up this religion called Sikhism...they have a lot of great things they say...
@Michael Klump, that was quite beautiful.
@Michael Klump, I accidently down voted you... have an up vote and an appology.
@Magickarp, I didn't know pokemon put any God before Arceus. Breaking the first pokemmandment.
@Michael Klump, YESSSSS. Why can't everyone just realize this.
@Michael Klump, Blaise Pascal's wager runs along these same lines. To paraphrase: "I would rather believe in God and find out there is none, than to not believe in God and find out there is one." Your comment is excellent
@Michael Klump, well, the bible doesn't state that good people go to heaven. It actually says that your actions don't matter. Its your heart that matters... so although this quote sounds nice, it doesn't apply to Christianity. Also, in stating whether or not the gods are "just" in this case, is based on human justice, not godly justice. God has a very different scale of what is just than we do. Just fyi.
@SWAT, but if there is A God then it must inherently be a part of this universe and would be responsible for our sense of justice. If a bad person happens to be in the right religion and is absolved and thus goes to heaven despite their "sins" and a good person, a truly good person, is damned for not being in the right club, then why would you want to pay tribute to such a indifferent being? I don't believe there is a God, or if there is its not related even remotely to any religion because if it were as the religions say and this world is the only place in the universe that mattered than the vastness of the universe makes no sense. But even if I believed the bible, even if I took every word as gospel, why would I want to serve such an arbitrary being.
@Just Wow, I didn't say anything remotely close to people "in the right club" get into heaven. I said God judges the heart. I also didn't say I want to pay tribute to anyone.
Also in regards to your last sentence, if you believed in the bible and took it as gospel, you wouldn't be blind and see God as arbitrary but in actuality, see Him as loving and just. So, your question cannot be answered the way it is phrased.
@Michael Klump, Gladiator!!
@SWAT, so "his" choices suddenly make sense if you follow the teachings? The agony and pain that people live through for no reason, the bigotry and confusion of life seems just in the light of that understanding? The world is cruel, and sad, and unfair, and the only thing that matters is what we do to each other, the meaning that we make. That makes sense. If you start with what is reality with the world as it is then "his love" doesn't seem to follow.
@Just Wow, no his choices make sense if you believe his teachings, not just follow them. And I'm not going to say I think all of God's choices make sense, because often, they don't. But who am I to put God in a box that I, a little human, must understand? His wisdom is infinitely greater than mine, so how can i expect to understand everything? I can't. But that's where faith comes into play. You seem to focus on the bad in the world, which is ever present, I'll admit that. Im a cop, i see a lot of bad happen. But what about the good? Why do you ignore the blessings in life that make it worthwhile? The beginning of life, the incredible sights from around the world like the polar ice caps, the great Barrier reef and the wonders of the Amazon. These are all things that cannot be imitated. Nothing can be more beautiful. Yet, because you want to talk yourself into believing there is no god, you ignore these. (cont)
@Just Wow, (cont) all because you are so arrogant to believe that just because you can't comprehend life's meaning, then that means it must be for not. So let me ask you, if the world is so sad, cruel and unfair and you make your own meaning, why are you still here? Why not end it all, because after all, it doesn't mean anything anyway. Why bother sticking around to see the world in its sad state?
@SWAT, I acknowledge the beauty of the world. I think our universe is the most aweinspiring thing I could ever see. And I am literally too finite, too small to understand the scale of it. The heavens are beautiful and amazing and stunning, and all the more beautiful for the randomness of it. Just because the world is sad and cruel, doesn't mean I have to be. When I die, I will be scattered to the wind and no part of me will remain. So the only thing that matters is what I do now. Is the support I give to my sister, in the face of our manipulative mother. The love I give my fiancee. The strength I provide to my friends,the strength that sometimes helps her not to kill herself. I am small. Inconsequential, immaterial. But when I do a good act, when I take the burden off of another person, and make their day a little better, that ripples through the world. And helps in a thousand minute ways to make the world a better place. That's enough. I don't need to be more than that, I don't (cont)
@SWAT, (cont) I don't need there to be a reason, a purpose, someone I have to prove my worth to. The only person I need to prove my worth to is me. And that's enough. My finite circle of understanding doesn't require my belief in someone else guiding my actions.
@Michael Klump, yay a Roman dude!
@Just Wow, ok, well that's good. If that's enough for you, then good for you. I'm serious, not being sarcastic. But, that's not enough for me. I'm not convinced that I'm an accident making up my own worth. Because if I make up my own worth based on what makes me feel good, then I'll never be successful. I'll always know that I should have done more or I could have done things differently. Since I'm making things up as I go along, I've got no one to tell me if I'm on the right path. That doesn't suit well for me. See, I know what I'm supposed to do with my life. I'm designed to use my gifts to spread the good news that Jesus has saved me. Thats it. If I do that, then I'm successful. I've got a peace knowing that there is a God that knows me more than I can ever know and yet still loves me. And knowing that is pure joy. I cannot reproduce the type of joy that that brings me. So really, I feel sorry for you that you don't know the feeling. But that's your decision, and that's fine.
@Just Wow, I just want you to know Truth. So here it is. If it means nothing to you, then I'm sorry. But I've done my job in sharing it. Have a good night.
@SWAT, I appreciate the attempt, and the emotion behind it. I take it as an attempt to share what helps you, and not as an attempt to change or judge me. So thank you, though it is not my path, I appreciate the comfort it brings you. Have a good evening.
@Just Wow, this has got to be the most cordial way a debate over religion has ever ended on the Internet. Society has a chance!
@Magickarp, as someone who isn't religious I agree 100% :)
@Magickarp, as a Jew, I too agree
@Magickarp, if you live a good life but don't accept Christ, you're still going to hell, no matter the virtues.
Damn it, Jimmy. Over Poppy's knee for your spanking.
@Schfifty Five, or be like Adrian Peterson and get the switch out.
LET ME HAVE THIS ONE THING JIMMY, YOU RUIN EVERYTHING
Serious question, and please, no religious flame wars, but what do atheists think happen after death? Like is it just nothingness, or you just have no life after death?
@that is all, I believe it's the same thing that happened before you were born
@that is all, Ironically enough, I'll quote the bible here. "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." Genesis 3:19
@Lisa Ann, My parents humping like rabbits?
@MisterSir, I believe that it's a reference to your physical body
@Ima6pack, damn send button! Anyways it's often left up to interpretation, but I think that passage it about the decay of your physical body when you die
@Ima6pack, yes it's a reference to the physical body and the point of the verse is referencing how people used to bury the dead with valuable possessions in order to have those possessions after death. The verse is stating that you'll be in the ground. Possessions don't matter.
Can't damn anything, either.
Well, Jimmy is correct...
I feel like this is insulting atheists so I don't like this.
@Pmail, I don't think it is, it's just a joke =P
19 September 2014 #19September2014 #September2014